Listened to this yesterday. The trapping guys will say "see, he says that adding trapping helps" which he does. What they will leave out is that hes talking about super intense trapping DURING NESTING/BROODING/FAWNING SEASONS. Also, hes talking about trapping on 10s of 1000s of acres... neither of which any of us can do.

Also, what I found interesting was that when habitat was sufficient they had good turkey numbers and hatches without trapping. Thats not what some here have claimed....

 

so, you continue to be a mind reader! and to your 2nd ingenious point, trapping on sufficient and good/great habitat only helps produce more as well

 

This is the first podcast that I've listen to from start to finish......Good Lsten!!

 

This has been a good podcast.

A. Trapping is a good tool.

B . Coyote harvest needs to be large scale , such as a county wide or state wide removal. So do your part and if you like trapping them, trap. If you see them , opportunistically kill them.

C. Mesopredators like raccoons with smaller home ranges can have populations lowered on a small scale.

D. When you apply nest predator trapping to good habitat like I did you are most likely to accomplish significant improvements like I have. 👍

 

This has been a good podcast.

A. Trapping is a good tool.

B . Coyote harvest needs to be large scale , such as a county wide or state wide removal. So do your part and if you like trapping them, trap. If you see them , opportunistically kill them.

C. Mesopredators like raccoons with smaller home ranges can have populations lowered on a small scale.

D. When you apply nest predator trapping to good habitat like I did you are most likely to accomplish significant improvements like I have. 👍

A. Correct. Its just not a good tool to improve game species.

B. Coyote removal must be large scale but also INTENSIVE AND TIMED AT THE RIGHT TIME, WHICH IS MAY - JUNE.

C. This was not stated in the podcast. The only way to lower them at a "small scale" is removing DURING NESTING SEASON.

D. No. He stated very clearly that in good habitat they had good hatches regardless of trapping. You didnt have good hatches. Youve stated that over and over. Adding trapping in good habitat, intensively, timed at the appropriate time, (illegal in MO), and at a large scale (ehich you dont have) can produce some minimum positive results.


That was a good try, but you need to stop trying to lie to yourself.

 

Grant Woods showing clips of a coyote, bobcat, and a hawk(not the HAWK attacking turkey decoys. He states that he and his clients have increased poult numbers by habitat improvement combined with predator control. Pretty Controversial stuff😊

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Grant Woods showing clips of a coyote, bobcat, and a hawk(not the HAWK attacking turkey decoys. He states that he and his clients have increased poult numbers by habitat improvement combined with predator control. Pretty Controversial stuff[emoji4]

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Too bad he doesnt have proof....

 

We should be thankful we have professionals like Lashley, Woods and many other biologists to acknowledge its not an either or choice. We can do both and use nest predator removal to make good habitat more productive. This bull**** nonsense that it's either or has been way over played.

 

We should be thankful we have professionals like Lashley, Woods and many other biologists to acknowledge its not an either or choice. We can do both and use nest predator removal to make good habitat more productive. This bull**** nonsense that it's either or has been way over played.

More habitat work is better than wating time trapping. Lashley will tell you that.

 

https://mdc.mo.gov/sites/default/files/2020-11/2019FurbearerReport.pdf

"MDC issued a total of 6,956 trapping permits for the 2018-19 trapping season"

Now, let's just say each of those permits average 250 acres of trapping each (honestly, this is just a "guestimate" I would like to know the average amount of acres per permit). That's 1,739,000 acres trapped...out of a 44,000,000 acres in Missouri. So, right about 4% of Missouri land. Now, I know there's cities and lakes which take up acreage as well. So, let's say that houses / cities / lakes / rivers take up 20% (again, a "guestimate" which I think is on the high end). So, now, 80% of the land is "trappable". That would make it a hair over 35,000,000 acres...now, we are trapping 5% of the land that is "trappable". Essentially, 950 out of every 1000 acres is not getting trapped. You can increase the 250 acres to 500 acres, and that still only gives you an extra 50 acres. 900 out of every 1000 acres not getting trapped. I know, I know...there's a lot of bare ground that essentially is untrappable. Yes, this would also add to the "untrappable" land. But, is it really that much?

Now, let's say those 6,956 permits average 30 hours of trapping during the season. That's just under 209,000 man hours of trapping. That kind of man hours invested into habitat work (not food plots!) you could really get some stuff done.

I only say all this for perspective, and why biologist state that you can remove a bunch of predators, and others will move right in.

 

https://mdc.mo.gov/sites/default/files/2020-11/2019FurbearerReport.pdf

"MDC issued a total of 6,956 trapping permits for the 2018-19 trapping season"

Now, let's just say each of those permits average 250 acres of trapping each (honestly, this is just a "guestimate" I would like to know the average amount of acres per permit). That's 1,739,000 acres trapped...out of a 44,000,000 acres in Missouri. So, right about 4% of Missouri land. Now, I know there's cities and lakes which take up acreage as well. So, let's say that houses / cities / lakes / rivers take up 20% (again, a "guestimate" which I think is on the high end). So, now, 80% of the land is "trappable". That would make it a hair over 35,000,000 acres...now, we are trapping 5% of the land that is "trappable". Essentially, 950 out of every 1000 acres is not getting trapped. You can increase the 250 acres to 500 acres, and that still only gives you an extra 50 acres. 900 out of every 1000 acres not getting trapped. I know, I know...there's a lot of bare ground that essentially is untrappable. Yes, this would also add to the "untrappable" land. But, is it really that much?

Now, let's say those 6,956 permits average 30 hours of trapping during the season. That's just under 209,000 man hours of trapping. That kind of man hours invested into habitat work (not food plots!) you could really get some stuff done.

I only say all this for perspective, and why biologist state that you can remove a bunch of predators, and others will move right in.

so, with all you just shared, you can't see any possiblity where predator numbers would be an issue?

 

https://mdc.mo.gov/sites/default/files/2020-11/2019FurbearerReport.pdf

pretty cool read

 

"Ultimately, the long–term solution to wild turkey populations is not dependent on predator control, but on man’s activities and good habitat management."
— James Earl Kennamer, Ph. D.

Wild Turkeys and Predators: What’s the Real Problem?

The National Wild Turkey Federation (NWTF) is a national nonprofit conservation and hunting organization that has worked for the conservation of the wild turkey and preservation of the hunting tradition since 1973.

www.nwtf.org

"The bottom-line is that predator control must be intensive, large-scale, and continuous to even show minimal positive results...Landowners with an interest in turkeys will receive far better results by focusing their efforts toward providing the birds with all the elements they need to gain an advantage over predators, rather than attempting to get rid of the predators themselves."
- Adam Butler, Turkey Program Biologist

Don't Blame Predators for Poor Turkey Habitat

www.mdwfp.com

"The high variability of Missouri's turkey hatch each year suggests that predators are not the main factor influencing nest success. Despite the abundance of predators, turkeys will be able to thrive in Missouri as long as sufficient habitat exists."
Robert A. Pierce II
Fisheries and Wildlife State Specialist
School of Natural Resources
Jason L. Isabelle
Resource Scientist
Missouri Department of Conservation

Wild Turkey Biology and Habitat Management in Missouri | MU Extension

Discover the remarkable recovery of Missouri's wild turkey population and learn effective habitat management strategies to support these birds.

extension.missouri.edu

 

"Ultimately, the long–term solution to wild turkey populations is not dependent on predator control, but on man’s activities and good habitat management."
— James Earl Kennamer, Ph. D.

Wild Turkeys and Predators: What’s the Real Problem?

The National Wild Turkey Federation (NWTF) is a national nonprofit conservation and hunting organization that has worked for the conservation of the wild turkey and preservation of the hunting tradition since 1973.

www.nwtf.org

"The bottom-line is that predator control must be intensive, large-scale, and continuous to even show minimal positive results...Landowners with an interest in turkeys will receive far better results by focusing their efforts toward providing the birds with all the elements they need to gain an advantage over predators, rather than attempting to get rid of the predators themselves."
- Adam Butler, Turkey Program Biologist

Don't Blame Predators for Poor Turkey Habitat

www.mdwfp.com

"The high variability of Missouri's turkey hatch each year suggests that predators are not the main factor influencing nest success. Despite the abundance of predators, turkeys will be able to thrive in Missouri as long as sufficient habitat exists."
Robert A. Pierce II
Fisheries and Wildlife State Specialist
School of Natural Resources
Jason L. Isabelle
Resource Scientist
Missouri Department of Conservation

Wild Turkey Biology and Habitat Management in Missouri | MU Extension

Discover the remarkable recovery of Missouri's wild turkey population and learn effective habitat management strategies to support these birds.

extension.missouri.edu

Predators are not the main factor, BUT number 2 in EVERY SINGLE DNR slide show, gotcha! Eliminate a bunch of them and add not as much of an advantage is needed! No one here has every said habitat is not the major play, but only a two (Hessue recently added) think habitat is the only play.

 

I may have saved some future turkeys and my trash can from getting raided by this **** ever again. I'm not sure if I will see more turkeys but I do know this, it wont get into my trash again. Carry on.

 

I may have saved some future turkeys and my trash can from getting raided by this **** ever again. I'm not sure if I will see more turkeys but I do know this, it wont get into my trash again. Carry on.

When you only have one trash can to protect its pretty simple.... but it only works for a few weeks.

 

Like I've said / posted before...turkey's are just one of many species that we are seeing a decline with. And, it's a minute decline compared to many others.

"The problem goes beyond birds. Based on analyses of the nation’s best-studied groups of plants and animals—including birds, mammals, fish, reptiles, amphibians and vascular plants—scientists at NatureServe estimate that about a third of all U.S. species are at risk of extinction."

The U.S. Biodiversity Crisis

A surprising number and variety of North American wildlife species are quietly disappearing

www.nwf.org

"Globally, we are facing a biodiversity crisis, and much of it is due to loss of habitat. That’s also the case for ruffed grouse. Increasing urban/agricultural sprawl and declining rates of forest management have resulted in unnaturally single-aged forest with little structural diversity. This leaves wildlife that need diverse forests (including ruffed grouse) in a lurch."
Can We Stop the Decline of the Ruffed Grouse? - Project Upland Magazine

"North America Has Lost More Than 1 in 4 Birds in Last 50 Years"

North America Has Lost More Than 1 in 4 Birds in Last 50 Years, New Study Says

For the first time, researchers have estimated the volume of total avian loss in the Western Hemisphere—and it’s not just threatened species that are declining. Many backyard favorites are also...

www.audubon.org

"Fewer than 40 percent of the 550 million acres of historical grasslands that once stretched from Alberta to Mexico remain today."

North American Grasslands & Birds Report

Audubon's report identifies the birds most vulnerable to climate change and the places they will need as temperatures rise.

www.audubon.org