[cowboy]

Sure it does. Its a unicorn. My beloved indiana reduced buck harvest , people still high grade 🤣 🤣 😁

 

[WBF]

Was reading an article regarding culling 8 pointers. A factor that isn’t considered is the fact that 3-4 yo’s are involved in the majority of the chasing getting ran down during the rut… Add in a poor nutrition year due to drought or a lagging injury it can all add and effect potential going into the following season. If this buck gets killed due to high grading or due to injury or not consuming enough groceries due to environment it’s still a dead deer taken out before he met his genetic potential due to lack of history on the deer and trigger control.

 

[Hawk2]

Sure it does. Its a unicorn. My beloved indiana reduced buck harvest , people still high grade 🤣 🤣 😁

Of course they still high-grade, just far less than when they could shoot a marginal buck and still keep shooting bucks.

The FACT here is, as I stated for years, the average buck in Missouri will be 150+ if it lives to 5.5 years old.

 

[Hawk2]

Was reading an article regarding culling 8 pointers. A factor that isn’t considered is the fact that 3-4 yo’s are involved in the majority of the chasing getting ran down during the rut… Add in a poor nutrition year due to drought or a lagging injury it can all add and effect potential going into the following season. If this buck gets killed due to high grading or due to injury or not consuming enough groceries due to environment it’s still a dead deer taken out before he met his genetic potential due to lack of history on the deer and trigger control.

Its extremely unlikely that many deer get run down enough during th rut to die. And in a state like Missouri the chances of them still being run down when antler growth starts is also low.

 

[WBF]

Its extremely unlikely that many deer get run down enough during th rut to die. And in a state like Missouri the chances of them still being run down when antler growth starts is also low.

I never stated the deer died due to rut fatigue. I was talking about antler growth or lack of due to illness, injury, etc. A 140 8 point gets shot due to culling or lack of trigger control that could be upper 150’s to 160 the following year.

 

[Triple Creek Hunter]

Here in most of Benton County even the 4 1/2 yr old bucks will struggle to hit 140s. I have shot several older bucks on my property as have family. The bigger ones were in high 130s a few in low 140s. I shot a tall 8pt few years ago that I know was a 5 1/2 yr old. He scored in the low 130s . Had an older 10pt that I missed in Dec that was shot the next year. He scored 159. That deer is the exception.
We just dont have the AG crops as North MO and other farm country states. The racks here just are not as thick and heavy.
With that said we have improved our deer herd by property/land management. Laying off the younger deer certainly has helped. We have a good number of 3 1/2- 4 1/2 yr olds running around. I am sure there are older bucks out there. I have caught a few on cam that might hit high 140s or 150s.
I am realistic about what constitutes a trophy buck off my place. I know the odds of taking a 160 or 170 or not good. At this point in my life I am very satisfied with a mature buck.

 

[20']

Those regulations actually REDUCE high grading. What you seem to be missing is that the average bucks potential in MO if not shot until 5.5 is 150+. That fact has NOTHING to do with which deer get shot.

Potential, but reality and real life deer I have followed, sheds I have found and measured prove to me that not every deer that makes it to 5.5 will score 150+! I’ll give you that most 5.5 yo bucks will get close to and surpass 150 but not ALL

 

[cowboy]

Good news guys. In order to have bigger bucks you just dont let anybody hunt them 🥳 😁

 

[HEAVY]

Once a spike always a spike !

I have a neighbor that still says that.

 

[PoisonSnake]

I do agree with one of your statements that if you let 100 deer live from 0.5 to 5.5 years of age, that you will have move 150" deer on the landscape.

I do not believe that the average deer in MO will ever reach an average score of 150" north to south, east to west, across the entire state even if you allow them to live to infinity. But, you will have, on average, bigger deer.

 

[callaojoe]

If I see a buck I want to shoot, I shoot it. Don’t put much more thought into it. It’s a recreational activity that can provide meat. 🍖

Highgrading is such an elitist term. 🤣

 

[kgdog]

Not a unicorn. Its a fact. Genetics and food are not the problem. Trigger control is. 100 bucks born in missouri that "ALL all " live to 5.5" will average over 150 inches.

Not south of Mo river ...Obviously you havent been there or experienced A Little know place called the OZARKS Even Mo big buks club and the other one has different criteria for the different geography

 

[Triple Creek Hunter]

Had a guy hunting on a neighbor. He said he would not shoot a buck unless it was 170 or better. I asked him if he understood where he was hunting. Told him he would be waiting a long time in the MO Ozarks for a 170 buck. Guy was full of BS and ended up taking what he called a 150. In reality it would be a stretch to hit 130s. Nothing wrong with a buck that size, but the guy had an unrealistic idea of what our area will produce.

 

[Hawk2]

I never stated the deer died due to rut fatigue. I was talking about antler growth or lack of due to illness, injury, etc. A 140 8 point gets shot due to culling or lack of trigger control that could be upper 150’s to 160 the following year.

Other than the obvious high grading you just mentioned, I dont know what that has to do with anything here.

 

[Hawk2]

Here in most of Benton County even the 4 1/2 yr old bucks will struggle to hit 140s. I have shot several older bucks on my property as have family. The bigger ones were in high 130s a few in low 140s. I shot a tall 8pt few years ago that I know was a 5 1/2 yr old. He scored in the low 130s . Had an older 10pt that I missed in Dec that was shot the next year. He scored 159. That deer is the exception.
We just dont have the AG crops as North MO and other farm country states. The racks here just are not as thick and heavy.
With that said we have improved our deer herd by property/land management. Laying off the younger deer certainly has helped. We have a good number of 3 1/2- 4 1/2 yr olds running around. I am sure there are older bucks out there. I have caught a few on cam that might hit high 140s or 150s.
I am realistic about what constitutes a trophy buck off my place. I know the odds of taking a 160 or 170 or not good. At this point in my life I am very satisfied with a mature buck.

Have someone explain the chart I posted to you. What you are describing is caused by high grading.

 

[Hawk2]

Good news guys. In order to have bigger bucks you just dont let anybody hunt them 🥳 😁

No, you just make them shoot the correct deer.

 

[Hawk2]

I do agree with one of your statements that if you let 100 deer live from 0.5 to 5.5 years of age, that you will have move 150" deer on the landscape.

I do not believe that the average deer in MO will ever reach an average score of 150" north to south, east to west, across the entire state even if you allow them to live to infinity. But, you will have, on average, bigger deer.

All the available data collected by rigorous science says otherwise.

 

[Hawk2]

If I see a buck I want to shoot, I shoot it. Don’t put much more thought into it. It’s a recreational activity that can provide meat. 🍖

Highgrading is such an elitist term. 🤣

Im not sure someone that is an elitist should throw that term around.

 

[Hawk2]

Not south of Mo river ...Obviously you havent been there or experienced A Little know place called the OZARKS Even Mo big buks club and the other one has different criteria for the different geography

South of the river as well. Nothing changes in the chart. You are talking about a couple inches in max antler potential, maybe. Mo Big Bucks isnt a scientific org.

 

[Hawk2]

Had a guy hunting on a neighbor. He said he would not shoot a buck unless it was 170 or better. I asked him if he understood where he was hunting. Told him he would be waiting a long time in the MO Ozarks for a 170 buck. Guy was full of BS and ended up taking what he called a 150. In reality it would be a stretch to hit 130s. Nothing wrong with a buck that size, but the guy had an unrealistic idea of what our area will produce.

Thats because of high grading and peoples attitudes. Your place will absolutely produce what the chart suggests if you dont shoot the best young deer at 2.5 and 3.5