[Bryan Heimann]

Those numbers have to be wrong. Every evening I sat this deer season I watched at least 3-4 raccoons climb down trees just within 25 yards or do if my position. There have been nights I saw 6 or more. I’ve seen more raccoons during the last of legal light this year than any other species including squirrels.

 

[Sawdust and Fire]

Mr. Horntagger,

Page 18 of this document references quail in MO and harvests impacts on them. It is a species where hunting and killing it does not hurt the population in most circumstances.

https://mdc.mo.gov/sites/default/files/2022-03/PLS059%20OnTheEdge.pdf

 

[hesseu]

“Habitat is usless if the hen does not survive and if the hen does not survive the eggs don't hatch and poult is no born at the very leas and we are just another predator in the mix”

Habitat is the foundation for survival.

Without habitat, there is zero chance for survival. No food, no cover, no chance.

 

[horntagger]

Mr. Horntagger,

That is an opinion you have every right to. States craft their regulations so that you can decide for yourself if you want to shoot that fall hen or not. If you don't think you can or should then you don't have to. The science behind it is simply that those hens taken will not change the outcome of the population enough to matter and they provide recreation for a segment of hunters. That's really all there is to it. I have seen that graphic in the pst and to me and many others it is a clear depiction of hen harvest not having any impact on the population.

Our podcast is putting together some pictures etc and will be working with landowners to try to help them improve their ground for turkeys. Would you be interested in submitting some pictures or allowing us to assist you and track the progress over time??

That's why it was unethical for me to even attempt to shoot any turkey with a bow in the past 10 years and why it was unethical to me to even buy a spring tag last year after not seeing or hearing a gobbler since 2016 and 2017 bought a tag but did not carry a gun, 2018 after 32 years of hunting turkeys I did not buy a tag, but worked on habitat projects the entire time. I would not call that a success story for Missouri Wild Turkey or MDC! But I am 100% sure me not buying a tag matter not one little bit to them or anyone else. But I won't be the only one, that's the sad part.


I will pull cameras in 16 days. I did have 3 hens and 2 gobblers show up last July, August, September and October. But still trying to decide. Right now the answer is no I won't hunt.

 

[Sawdust and Fire]

That's why it was unethical for me to even attempt to shoot any turkey with a bow in the past 10 years and why it was unethical to me to even buy a spring tag last year after not seeing or hearing a gobbler since 2016 and 2017 bought a tag but did not carry a gun, 2018 after 32 years of hunting turkeys I did not buy a tag, but worked on habitat projects the entire time. I would not call that a success story for Missouri Wild Turkey or MDC! But I am 100% sure me not buying a tag matter not one little bit to them or anyone else. But I won't be the only one, that's the sad part.


I will pull cameras in 16 days. I did have 3 hens and 2 gobblers show up last July, August, September and October. But still trying to decide. Right now the answer is no I won't hunt.

The offer stands. If you have an brood habitat pictures or would like for us to try to help we would be glad to. That goes for anyone else on this page as well.

 

[Beerman]

Great....the mighty hawk is back with all his bs that nest predators aren't the problem........

 

[90acres]

Enough with all the Mr. crap, ffs

 

[horntagger]

The offer stands. If you have an brood habitat pictures or would like for us to try to help we would be glad to. That goes for anyone else on this page as well.

Thanks but after 35 years of reading all the habitat programs for wild turkey- I think I got it. Missouri Wild Turkey Habitat Initiative

 

[20']

Mr Horntagger,

There is no biological reason to kill hens the last 7 years. There has never beenany biological reason to kill hens or any other turkey. The reason they are shot is for recreation. The value of that recreation is great than the biological or population benefit of the amount of hens that are removed. If we were to see large numbers of hens killed yearly it would be a problem biologically. At current levels it is what is called compensatory. The harvest of those hens does not increase the overall mortality of the population.

So killing hens grows the population😁

 

[Reflex]

and an agent once said a guy on here trapping efforts, named Henry...would account for 1-2 more broods....dare imagine what intense trapping could bring.....1-2 more broods for every 200 acres....and then compound that year after year!

You forgot the word might.

 

[20']

Mr. Horntagger,

That is an opinion you have every right to. States craft their regulations so that you can decide for yourself if you want to shoot that fall hen or not. If you don't think you can or should then you don't have to. The science behind it is simply that those hens taken will not change the outcome of the population enough to matter and they provide recreation for a segment of hunters. That's really all there is to it. I have seen that graphic in the pst and to me and many others it is a clear depiction of hen harvest not having any impact on the population.

Our podcast is putting together some pictures etc and will be working with landowners to try to help them improve their ground for turkeys. Would you be interested in submitting some pictures or allowing us to assist you and track the progress over time??

You forgot the word might.

I forget the exact quote but it was NOt might, it was something like …it will likely …

 

[ryanlowe02]

our lease is loaded with turkeys, hope to smoke 5-6 gobblers/jakes this spring with my boys........ wipe them out! face shots only!

 

[20']

our lease is loaded with turkeys, hope to smoke 5-6 gobblers/jakes this spring with my boys........ wipe them out! face shots only!

make a pile!

 

[Hunter Johnson]

Thank god we are in Agreement. Thank you for saving me money from here on out. Where were you 16 years ago.. Habitat improvements are waste of time.

By the way congratulation on KC winning super bowl. JG!!!!


By the way you and your other profiles online keep getting County wrong on where my property is.

I Attempt to keep predators in check, not to eliminate and not to eridicate not to completely cleaned up.. Never said 1 time trapping alone is the solution. Miight want to look again. You should work for the Center for Biological Diveristy you be great fit. Doesn't sound like you support the trapping recuitment or retention.

Thank god I can stop burning with my occosional burns since 2012 rotating the different areas. I knew all those annoying habitat activities I am doing on my 80 acres was a waste of time. Please tell me with you years of experience how many acres do you need for turkeys. Last I read was 3,000 acres. Maybe we should stop telling average Missouri landowners 250 acres to stop wasting his time on presribed fires, TSI or brood cover because it's not enough to matter. I guess that neighbor with the 9,000 acres contols the turkey population. LOL Oh that's right Turkey Hunting population on the MDC ground sucks also.


ROFLMAO 70% crack me up get with the MDC policy buddy - They threw that out 3 to 4 years ago. Now it's cleared watersheds - You can't check their math that way. 70% has been erased from the science in Missouri you can't even find it on their website no more. LOL

I don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. I live in Arkansas and have actively involved in feral hog trapping for several years.
I’m definitely not against trapping, I have supplemented my income most of my life as an ADC trapper and I love to trap! Been trapping for 40 years, but I know that I can’t reverse the turkey decline by trapping and I know that predators are a result of the problem, not the actual problem.
I’ve never said anywhere that burning doesn’t help, or that you can’t hold turkeys on smaller properties, I know better and have done it.
I also have seen enough from you that you are constantly blaming predators and the MDC for your lack of turkeys. If you would spend more time forming coops with your neighbors, if you could learn what turkey habitat is and actually learn how to manage all predators and not just a few you catch in a trap then you wouldn’t be constantly complaining about it.
I’ve offered to help you before, but you didn’t want it and blocked me. you just want complain and blame someone beside yourself. I’m to the point now that I would probably pay for a habitat consultant to come to your place and show you what you could do to help and identify what your problems actually are…..it isn’t predators or the MDC!

 

[20']

how the furbearer population when the turkeys were being restored? How was the fur market at that same time?

 

[horntagger]

I don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. I live in Arkansas and have actively involved in feral hog trapping for several years.
I’m definitely not against trapping, I have supplemented my income most of my life as an ADC trapper and I love to trap! Been trapping for 40 years, but I know that I can’t reverse the turkey decline by trapping and I know that predators are a result of the problem, not the actual problem.
I’ve never said anywhere that burning doesn’t help, or that you can’t hold turkeys on smaller properties, I know better and have done it.
I also have seen enough from you that you are constantly blaming predators and the MDC for your lack of turkeys. If you would spend more time forming coops with your neighbors, if you could learn what turkey habitat is and actually learn how to manage all predators and not just a few you catch in a trap then you wouldn’t be constantly complaining about it.
I’ve offered to help you before, but you didn’t want it and blocked me. you just want complain and blame someone beside yourself. I’m to the point now that I would probably pay for a habitat consultant to come to your place and show you what you could do to help and identify what your problems actually are…..it isn’t predators or the MDC!

My neighbor is the Missouri Department of Conservation - 9,000 acres of Conservation area in which they are not trapping Gobblers to band because they barely exist. Instead they are going to another part of the county in the North. LOL can't make this stuff up.. Form a COOP - ROFLMAO - Maybe mdc should manage our property we pay taxes for. I know exacatly what they do. Have photo today of federal hog trapper with load of corn head right into. That should feed a whole bunch of raccoons just in time for turkey season and nesting to start.

 

[hesseu]

My neighbor is the Missouri Department of Conservation - 9,000 acres of Conservation area in which they are not trapping Gobblers to band because they barely exist. Instead they are going to another part of the county in the North. LOL can't make this stuff up.. Form a COOP - ROFLMAO - Maybe mdc should manage our property we pay taxes for. I know exacatly what they do. Have photo today of federal hog trapper with load of corn head right into. That should feed a whole bunch of raccoons just in time for turkey season and nesting to start.

Again, 89% of ground in Missouri is private. Yes, it would be nice for the remaining 11% to have a whole heck of a lot better habitat. BUT, the resources aren't there. While they are doing TSI, fire, old field management work, etc, at the end of the day it is necessary for the private land owners to take the lead and responsibility.

 

[20']

Again, 89% of ground in Missouri is private. Yes, it would be nice for the remaining 11% to have a whole heck of a lot better habitat. BUT, the resources aren't there. While they are doing TSI, fire, old field management work, etc, at the end of the day it is necessary for the private land owners to take the lead and responsibility.

what resources is that 11% missing? Pretty sure the tax brings in copious amounts of cash to fund the needs for that 11%...but it is likelt not appropriated correctly!

 

[Sawdust and Fire]

20,
In many cases its not resources that are the issue. Some areas are just managed for different purposes.


Horntagger,

Which 9000 acre area is your farm near?

 

[hesseu]

what resources is that 11% missing? Pretty sure the tax brings in copious amounts of cash to fund the needs for that 11%...but it is likelt not appropriated correctly!

Depending on the type of TSI work being done, it can cost upwards of $350 / acre to sub this out.

Missouri has approximately 44 million acres. Let's say 10% of that public. 4.4 million total. Per MDC "The Missouri Department of Conservation administers more than 975,000 acres located throughout the state. About 63 percent, or 615,000 acres, are forested."

So, MDC oversees approximately 25% of public land. Let's say they want to TSI 25% of the forested land...so, approximately 150,000 acres. 1) That would take a massive crew 2) If they got a "deal" and it cost them $150 / acre to TSI this 150,000 acres...that would cost $22,500,000.

So, with this scale in mind, you can see why it is much easier and better for the MDC to have programs where they will help out landowners by paying them and / or covering the cost of this work. And, TSI is just a small fraction. Think of how many fescue and cool season grass fields need conversions! And, this conversion is NECESSARY for wild turkey! We need way more old field acres. BUT, most people don't like it because "it isn't green" year round. That is one of the biggest uphill battles right now.