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Discussion in 'Turkey Hunting General' started by Hawk, Oct 18, 2017.
So, 50%? 30%?
Much experience can be gleaned listening to others speak of the successes, failures or blown opportunities and what they learned from them. I did say that couple with time afield. Much of this is from forums and such.
you already say that 50% of the birds that survive 2 yo don't see the next season, so now take more of them out during the season and yes it will have an impact.
Choices, while you are off turkey hunting, some people are off making money. And, if you think I have seriously put people down, I am talking seriously putting a person down for the rifle they shoot, or the beer they drink, you are really a lot more sensative than I thought. Yes, busch light is a horrible tasting beer, IN MY OPINION, but I rek'n someone out there must like it, as they sell enough of it to keep making it. And, as you get older, don't be surprised if your tastes in things like that change.... I drank plenty of natty light in my day, and worse..... One, you have never met me, you are just making perceptions based upon silly comments on an internet forum. Those that truly know me, know better. I'll just leave it at that.
I had discussions with him about ADH in MO going back 10yrs ago, before you even joined MWT. He has always had the same position, trust me.
I killed my first ever afternoon gobbler with him in KS in 2008. I wasnt sitting with him at the time but it was on the same trip. Trust me, we had a lot of discussion about ADH in MO and lots of it well pre-dated your two's arguments. I suppose trusting me will be the challenge for you regarding all this
that was worth the price of admission
I'm glad I could help you out, if there's anything else you need some advice on, I am here to help.
I don't doubt that he felt that way in 2008... My point is, hes got to be about the dumbest person alive if he still has that opinion after ALL the people/biologists/ researchers/ etc that he used to form that opinion have come out plainly and said they support ADH. He tried to use Vangilder... Vangilder came out strongly in favor of ADH. He said vangilder said we would have less gobbling, Vangilder said that wasn't the case. He said hutnig quality would suffer because of less carryover, they ALL said that was very unlikely to happen. He said day to day hunt quality would suffer, Jason said that wasn't the case....
My point is, if every person that helped him form his opinion has either reversed it or never meant what he thought they did, then hed be a fool to have not changed his. And IF that has happened (which I STRONGLY SUSPECT is the case) you and I and everyone here at MWT will NEVER KNOW. He wont let it happen... We could go 10 years with ADH and experience no decline in harvest or hunt quality metrics and he still wouldn't admit it....
Some people (most maybe) have some very strongly held beliefs that cannot be changed. I know I do.
The difference between Henry and I and Henry and Hawk is that Henry and I can agree to disagree and move on. Henry and Hawk dont, wont and cant. Just the way it is, both of you share guilt in that.
We have had some REALLY spirited conversations around various hunting topics, tons of political topics, etc. Dont believe for one minute that he and I agree on everything, its far from that. We both put differences aside because we are friends.
And honestly, all the ribbing I give you is friendly in nature also, even though you probably dont take it that way cause you are already tired of defending pigs and peccaries or whatever lol
I just dont take things or people that seriously, never have and never will especially on the internet. Not at all interested in division, angst, anger whatever between folks, particularly folks I know and like.
No doubt, Henry has a lot of things I sure as heck don't agree with, but like you said, we disagree and move on..... Don't get me started on his politics.
I am marginally pro-ADH, but much like in the xbow dealio.... If it truly does harm to populations, then be prepared to back them out.... From a conceptual level, I don't see much difference in the two ideas.
I don't care what you think hawk. And I'm not the dumbest person alive. I'm cautious when it comes to increasing utilization of a declining resource. The dumbest person alive award is reserved for those who can't seem to grasp that a peccary isn't a pig.
Just answer me this honestly...
If he changed his mind about ADH, would he ever tell us?
I won't change my mind unless the population grows and shows signs of better production. Will you ever admit you were wrong about peccary being pigs ? No. Lol
If he honestly changed his mind, yes I think he would, and he'd explain why..... Just my opinion though.
Thats not going to happen, changing his mind I'm saying. Why would you worry about it? Contemplating that he secretly thinks something but says something else is futile, and maybe even a little creepy.
I have seen him use something he previously thought to be gimicky and change his mind. I seem to remember him saying he wasnt all that thrilled with the new HD decoys (DSD, Avians etc) when they first came out but he ended up buying some in the end and swears by them. I've seen him use hunting tactics that he didnt previously after talking with some folks and change his mind. Just like any other good hunter, a lot of it is trial and error. Several other examples of him changing his mind but he is pretty devoted to some of his opinions as are a lot of us.
We ALL arent much different when it all boils down.
The population growing and all day hunting have NOTHING to do with one another.
All Im saying is, the dude is way to stubborn to let anyone think he was evwr wrong, or that someone changed his opinion.
I can tell you for certain that if we switch to ADH, AND THATS THE ONLY CHANGE, if harvest increases by more than 15% over what it would have been Ill straight uo say I was wrong. Thats the difference between the 2 of us.
You can be devoted to your opinions, but back them up. Make your opinion informed. If you are using professionals as the basis of your opinion, if they change theirs you need to reevaluate yours and either change it or find other supporting evidence. Hes done neither. Its plain stubborness is all it is.
How are they linked 20.....
If I am just being honest, I am thinking this is a table for two....