Too hot, primers, brass???

Discussion in 'Reloading Tips & Tricks' started by Heeler75, Oct 31, 2010.

  1. Heeler75

    Heeler75 Confirmed Bachelor

    Feb 10, 2008
    Over Yonder Way
    Went shooting today and had some problems.

    In the picture the cases are lined left to right exactly as I shot them. And the barrel did not get hot either as I was taking my time between shot.

    You can see that two of the primers (3rd and 5th) cratered badly with a possible on the 4th. I did not have any other signs of high pressure. Shells extracted okay, and bolt was not sticky, cases look good.

    My load is:
    150gr Scirocco II
    68.0gr RL-22 (max is 68.5gr)
    Remington 9 1/2M primer
    Brass is 1X fired and full-length resized

    I have loaded a 4-shot string of this exact load before and didn't have any problems as shown.

    I do have 15 shells left that I loaded for this batch. I believe I will pull the bullets from a few of them and double check the powder charge, but is there anything else I should look for?

    I think I'll back off to 67.0gr also for future loads.

    I wonder if anyone else has had this issue before and any insight would be appreciated as to what some causes might be.



    [file]144571[/file]
     
  2. kevthebassman

    kevthebassman New Member

    Jul 26, 2008
    Eureka
    I don't have my manual handy, but pulling up online I'm seeing a listed loads for RL22 with a 150 grain bullet at 58.0 to 58.5. :eek: Again, my manuals are buried in storage somewhere...

    EDIT: I take that back, I do have one manual in the house, Lyman 47th, so it's an older book. Lists max charge for RL22 at 57.5 grains with jacketed 150 grain bullets.

    It looks to me like you're getting textbook pressure signs. SAAMI max for the .270 is 65,000, book listed max with RL22 only hits 51,000, the book max is well under the max pressure. If that's the only signs present I would think backing off a little bit would be enough. How's the accuracy with that load?

    2nd EDIT: I see you're mixing brass. If I was going to be pushing my loads to max, I would settle on one type of brass just for consistency. Just my humble opinion, worth what you paid for it.
     

  3. bulletman

    bulletman Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2009
    Sedalia
    I don't have my books handy either but that doesn't change that your setup is showing a problem, if that primer finishes blanking out you get gas in the bolt body (and maybe your eye) and that not only etches your bolt face it can cause firing pin issues. With the combination you're shooting it's too much pressure. A reduction in powder or a change in components to ensure functionality is suggested.
     
  4. Wooddust

    Wooddust Well-Known Member

    Jul 26, 2003
    Id also not mix carts but thats cause I am a bit anal on that sort of thing when working up loads. Pressure is too high, thats pretty clear. Did they all extract normally?
     
  5. Mule

    Mule Well-Known Member

    Sep 27, 2003
    Franklin County, MO
    I have a little different view of this. Two primers are cratered. None are Flattened. My thoughts are;

    - soft primer cups, W-W?

    - firing pin too long

    - FL sized and shoulder set back a hair too far resulting in higher than normal rearward thrust.

    Assuming you are using a bolt gun, neck size these 5 cases and run the same load through again.

    Then again, it may be something else. Good Luck!
     
  6. glennasher1

    glennasher1 Well-Known Member

    Sep 16, 2004
    Radcliff, KY
    [rquote=1871858&tid=130332&author=Bulletman]I don't have my books handy either but that doesn't change that your setup is showing a problem, if that primer finishes blanking out you get gas in the bolt body (and maybe your eye) and that not only etches your bolt face it can cause firing pin issues. With the combination you're shooting it's too much pressure. A reduction in powder or a change in components to ensure functionality is suggested.[/rquote]


    Those Scirrocco bullets build pressure differently than regular old bullets, too, they're harder, and build pressure faster than "normal" slugs. Back off a fuzz, deer only die "so dead" anyway, and more doesn't make them deader.
    I agree that sticking with one type of cases is better for consistency, too, which is important for accuracy AND pressure signs. Both of the cases that showed pressure were W-W, so that should be a hint, too.

    Being safe is better than being sorry.
     
  7. Mailman

    Mailman Well-Known Member

    Feb 2, 2005
    Blue Springs Mo
  8. Heeler75

    Heeler75 Confirmed Bachelor

    Feb 10, 2008
    Over Yonder Way
    Thanks all. That's what had me a little confused is the fact that none of the Remington's cratered, even after I fired the one WW brass that cratered. Not to mention, the second shot I took was with a WW brass and it didn't crater. Not to mention, I shot this load combo over the summer and had no pressure signs at all.

    My Swift manual states 68.5 for max on RL-22.

    yes, it's a bolt gun and all cases extracted with no issues.

    I do remember that when I was priming the brass that the primers went into the RP brass easier than the WW brass. Maybe something to do with the pockets? I cleaned all the pockets the exact same way too.
    For piece of mind, I'm gonna pull the bullets on the rest and start over with 67.0 gr.
     
  9. bigjohn

    bigjohn Active Member

    May 31, 2008
    Marshall,Mo
    A couple of years back,there was some trouble with Reloader 22 being too hot.If I remember right,they had a recall on a couple of lots.Any time I change lots of powder,I check it out with a few rounds to make sure I don't have a problem withit.
     
  10. callaojoe

    callaojoe Máistir an pointe hocht.

    Jan 21, 2004
    N/C Missouri
    My Nosler book, does not list RL-22 for 150 gr bullets, but it does for the 140's. And, the max for 140's is 67.5. Max for 160's is listed at 63. Usually, the lighter bullets can take a heavier charge of powder, so it sounds like you are definitely pushing max, and those primer craters are a sign of pressure..... I would think, the max would be around 65 based on this info....:shrug:
     
  11. callaojoe

    callaojoe Máistir an pointe hocht.

    Jan 21, 2004
    N/C Missouri
    checked my Hornady book....

    Hornady lists, 139 gr bullets at 66.8 max for RL-22
    and for 154 gr bullets, it lists 63.4 gr's of RL-22 as max.

    You plannin to shoot whitetails with this load, not sure why you would need the extra oomph of a Max load..... Unless you are just playing around...

    But, sounds to me like a 68 gr charge with a 150 gr bullet might be a bit too much....:shrug:
     
  12. Mailman

    Mailman Well-Known Member

    Feb 2, 2005
    Blue Springs Mo
    [rquote=1873546&tid=130332&author=callaojoe]
    You plannin to shoot whitetails with this load, not sure why you would need the extra oomph of a Max load..... Unless you are just playing around...

    But, sounds to me like a 68 gr charge with a 150 gr bullet might be a bit too much....:shrug:[/rquote]

    My choice on using a minimal or maximum charge depends on how the round groups on paper. My almost 40 year old .243 likes the slower bullets when it comes to tight groups. I found similar specs from my newer books Callaojoe. I'm thinking drop the grains down a bit.
     
  13. Heeler75

    Heeler75 Confirmed Bachelor

    Feb 10, 2008
    Over Yonder Way
    I was using 68 gr. as that grouping was showing promise over some of the lighter loads I tried.

    And my Swift Manual shows max at 68.5gr and Scirroccos are Swift bullets.... So, I didn't even bother looking at my Hornady manual or Nosler Manual. :cheers:
     
  14. callaojoe

    callaojoe Máistir an pointe hocht.

    Jan 21, 2004
    N/C Missouri
    MM, that is why, I normally start with a load several grains bellow the listed max, and start moving up. Playing with C.O.L., as well as charge of powder. First load that really groups tight, I stop there.

    For instance, for a 150 gr 30-06 load, I might take rounds with 55, 55.5, 56, 56.5, 57, 57.5 gr's of IMR 4350. find the one that groups best, then play around with COL, if I think It can get it better. I have a Hornady OAL gauge now, and have had very good luck setting COL the first time base off the readings from this gauge. Once a load shoots MOA, I consider that good enough for deer......:shrug:

    My 30-06 Encore, seemed to like loads that should have been turning about 2800 out of the muzzle, no matter what powder I used. I think I had 3 powders I tried....:thinking: Couple years ago.... So, I don't remember for sure. Found one I liked, and settled on it.:shrug:
     
  15. Mailman

    Mailman Well-Known Member

    Feb 2, 2005
    Blue Springs Mo
    [rquote=1873637&tid=130332&author=Heeler75]I was using 68 gr. as that grouping was showing promise over some of the lighter loads I tried.

    And my Swift Manual shows max at 68.5gr and Scirroccos are Swift bullets.... So, I didn't even bother looking at my Hornady manual or Nosler Manual. :cheers: [/rquote]

    I understand Bradley....I have 4 or 5 newer books that I reference and it seems that each has different numbers to go by. I seldom ever get within one grain of the max on most of my loads. I usually find my best grouping somewhere in the middle of the minimum and maximum choices....but not all the time.:2thumbsup:

    Good to see you experimenting with your new hobby.:wave:
     
  16. Heeler75

    Heeler75 Confirmed Bachelor

    Feb 10, 2008
    Over Yonder Way
    [rquote=1873724&tid=130332&author=Mailman][rquote=1873637&tid=130332&author=Heeler75]I was using 68 gr. as that grouping was showing promise over some of the lighter loads I tried.

    And my Swift Manual shows max at 68.5gr and Scirroccos are Swift bullets.... So, I didn't even bother looking at my Hornady manual or Nosler Manual. :cheers: [/rquote]

    I understand Bradley....I have 4 or 5 newer books that I reference and it seems that each has different numbers to go by. I seldom ever get within one grain of the max on most of my loads. I usually find my best grouping somewhere in the middle of the minimum and maximum choices....but not all the time.:2thumbsup:

    Good to see you experimenting with your new hobby.:wave:[/rquote]

    Well, it's all fun until you run into the issue I did above. :wave:

    I'll load up some more in the 65-67 range and see how those do for me.
     
  17. kevthebassman

    kevthebassman New Member

    Jul 26, 2008
    Eureka
    I wonder why the different manuals have an almost 10 grain difference in max powder charge???
     
  18. bulletman

    bulletman Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2009
    Sedalia
    Because components and chambers vary that much, primers, case capacities, lots of powder and the biggest is that even though the weight is the same the BULLETS vary in length and actual diameter as well as bearing surface.