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I grew up hunting Pheasants up by Plainville,Rooks county, one of my dad's WW II buddies owned lots of land up that way.


fyi for those who do not know, in Kansas oos archery deer hunters have to put in for a primary unit and an adjacent secondary unit. I have no idea about rifle hunters.

this year was the first time that all 23,000 oos permits were issued and over 8,000 failed to get drawn
Then Kansas sold more OOS archery tags than Missouri and they have half the deer population so just another point that Missouri really doesn’t have an issue
 

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Discussion Starter · #222 ·
Then Kansas sold more OOS archery tags than Missouri and they have half the deer population so just another point that Missouri really doesn’t have an issue
KDWP is even more addicted to OOS $ than MDC....I wouldn't equate that to deer population so much or compare MO to KS in that regard. MO residents are more than capable of keeping our deer population in check without help from NR's. It think its more an issue of too much pressure in a compressed amount of time on too little area. MO has tons of public ground but I bet 90% of NR's hunt north of the Missouri River from the last week of October till end of gun season. That's a guess on my part based on what I see but my guess is as good as any since there is no data logged by MDC to track such things.
 

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KDWP is even more addicted to OOS $ than MDC....I wouldn't equate that to deer population so much or compare MO to KS in that regard. MO residents are more than capable of keeping our deer population in check without help from NR's. It think its more an issue of too much pressure in a compressed amount of time on too little area. MO has tons of public ground but I bet 90% of NR's hunt north of the Missouri River from the last week of October till end of gun season. That's a guess on my part based on what I see but my guess is as good as any since there is no data logged by MDC to track such things.
Apparently not because the deer population is growing and there was 100,000 less residents who hunted archery and firearm last season than in 2019.With over 1.1 million tags sold vs 55,000 tags sold its pretty easy to see the 55,000 ain’t hurting too much it’s less than 5% of tag sales.Take into account that a large majority of those tags hunt with outfitters,lease ground,permission farms,or family land and usually don’t hunt for more than 5-7 days tops per vacation and I don’t think it’s that much of a deal.I think we live in bubbles and if something effects us we automatically apply it to everywhere.They can make it all draw hunting for all I care I have no desire to mess with public ground anywhere for white tails where they allow a gun of any kind.Sorry your situation sucks I get it is prolly frustrating kinda like when I wanna go fish in Venice and everywhere you go there is a guide in the good spots that wants to yell if you get within 200 yards of them,but I just don’t see how I can find places to hunt from 14 hours away and someone who has lived there,their entire lives cannot find a single place to hunt other than one particular CA
 

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Those states don’t have half the deer Missouri does.Like I said it’s based off how limited the resource is.The deer aren’t in danger.The herd has slowly grew actually since EHD was bad back a few years.So if the herd has grew an stabilized then the resource is fine an hunter numbers are fine.If they did anything it be take away a buck tag from everybody or maybe NR hunters and only give everybody 1 or just NRs 1 buck tag.Cause they want the hunters attracted to the state so they will hopefully kill a doe or two while they are here and make them $580 a pop
And Missouri doesn’t have the quality of bucks percentage wise of herd those other states do, hence why they can’t charge a premium! Any smart southern boy if the price of OOS state tags were equal they would be in KS, IA or IL
 

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Discussion Starter · #225 ·
These are real numbers sent to me by MDC on the morning of 11/13/21 and reflect all deer tag sales through 11/12/21. If we are going to talk numbers then we can least all be looking at the same data. I separated it out by RES & NR.

TypeCodeProductNameValidCountTypeCodeProductNameValidCount
60​
RES ARCHER`S HUNTING 120,638
83​
NON-RES ARCH ANTLERLESS DEER
4222​
81​
RES ARCHERY ANTLERLESS DEER 68,972
75​
NON-RES ARCHER`S HUNTING
14558​
64​
RES DMAP FIREARMS ANTLERLESS DEER 370
72​
NON-RES DMAP FIREARMS ANTLERLESS DEER
101​
62​
RES FIREARM ANTLERLESS 154,160
73​
NON-RES FIREARM ANTLERLESS DEER
7870​
65​
RES FIREARM ANY DEER HUNTING 232,073
70​
NON-RES FIREARM ANY DEER
17102​
120​
RES LANDOWNER ARCHER'S HUNTING 48,858
79​
NON-RES MANAGED DEER HUNTING
18​
121​
RES LANDOWNER ARCHERY ANTLERLESS DEER 95,282
675​
NON-RES YOUTH ARCHER'S HUNTING
568​
101​
RES LANDOWNER FIREARMS ANTLERLESS DEER 88,192
683​
NON-RES YOUTH ARCHERY ANTLERLESS DEER
285​
100​
RES LANDOWNER FIREARMS ANY DEER 74,022
673​
NON-RES YOUTH FIREARM ANTLERLESS DEER
1139​
69​
RES MANAGED DEER HUNTING 3,366
670​
NON-RES YOUTH FIREARM ANY DEER HUNTING
2220​
660​
RES YOUTH ARCHER'S HUNTING 9,444
679​
NON-RES YOUTH MANAGED DEER HUNTING
2​
681​
RES YOUTH ARCHERY ANTLERLESS DEER 4,909
108​
NONRESIDENT LANDOWNER FIREARM DEER
805​
664​
RES YOUTH DMAP FIREARMS ANTLERLESS DEER 13Total
48890​
662​
RES YOUTH FIREARM ANTLERLESS DEER 25,137
665​
RES YOUTH FIREARM ANY DEER HUNTING 47,987
669​
RES YOUTH MANAGED DEER HUNTING 314
Total 973,737
 

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And Missouri doesn’t have the quality of bucks percentage wise of herd those other states do, hence why they can’t charge a premium! Any smart southern boy if the price of OOS state tags were equal they would be in KS, IA or IL
Kansas sold more archery tags than Missouri sold archery tags so that point don’t mean much.Rifle season in the middle of the rut and more than one buck tag is what attracts people along with high deer numbers and Missouri is located perfectly geographically where it isn’t too bad of a drive from most places.Out of staters ain’t killing all the young deer.Change your buck tags to one,move rifle season,do whatever but the only issue Missouri has is that contrary to what people on here think 95% of people who hunt do not give a rats *** about the age of a deer or quality deer hunting.The only person who can manage anything is your own trigger control.Fortunately that is the new trend in hunting the younger people are starting to let young deer walk and the old school people are dying off.If the resource was in danger I could see the point but the number of deer are growing,hunter numbers are declining,and more an more people believe in QDM slowly but surely.It will be fine the sky isn’t falling.But go to one buck tag,go to one tag for NRs no archery and Rifle for NRs I honestly don’t care.But the false since that magically big deer will pop out the sky in a state that kills 90% or more 2.5 or younger deer is a pipe dream
 

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Discussion Starter · #227 ·
Kansas sold more archery tags than Missouri sold archery tags so that point don’t mean much.Rifle season in the middle of the rut and more than one buck tag is what attracts people along with high deer numbers and Missouri is located perfectly geographically where it isn’t too bad of a drive from most places.Out of staters ain’t killing all the young deer.Change your buck tags to one,move rifle season,do whatever but the only issue Missouri has is that contrary to what people on here think 95% of people who hunt do not give a rats *** about the age of a deer or quality deer hunting.The only person who can manage anything is your own trigger control.Fortunately that is the new trend in hunting the younger people are starting to let young deer walk and the old school people are dying off.If the resource was in danger I could see the point but the number of deer are growing,hunter numbers are declining,and more an more people believe in QDM slowly but surely.It will be fine the sky isn’t falling.But go to one buck tag,go to one tag for NRs no archery and Rifle for NRs I honestly don’t care.But the false since that magically big deer will pop out the sky in a state that kills 90% or more 2.5 or younger deer is a pipe dream
I agree with some of your post there but in particular, is the statement " in a state that kills 90% or more 2.5 or younger deer " factual or just your opinion. If factual, can you post that or reference it? That seems like a high number to me.
 

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I understand your perspective but I have a question, do the other states you hunt allow unlimted NR tags and unlimited public land access? Are tags sold for specific zones or statewide? Is the process a "free for all" like MO or is it more controlled? I would think that even NR's coming to MO to hunt would appreciate a higher quality experience on public ground.
I'm in Indiana, and yes, NR can all buy a tag.
 

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These are real numbers sent to me by MDC on the morning of 11/13/21 and reflect all deer tag sales through 11/12/21. If we are going to talk numbers then we can least all be looking at the same data. I separated it out by RES & NR.

TypeCodeProductNameValidCountTypeCodeProductNameValidCount
60​
RES ARCHER`S HUNTING 120,638
83​
NON-RES ARCH ANTLERLESS DEER
4222​
81​
RES ARCHERY ANTLERLESS DEER 68,972
75​
NON-RES ARCHER`S HUNTING
14558​
64​
RES DMAP FIREARMS ANTLERLESS DEER 370
72​
NON-RES DMAP FIREARMS ANTLERLESS DEER
101​
62​
RES FIREARM ANTLERLESS 154,160
73​
NON-RES FIREARM ANTLERLESS DEER
7870​
65​
RES FIREARM ANY DEER HUNTING 232,073
70​
NON-RES FIREARM ANY DEER
17102​
120​
RES LANDOWNER ARCHER'S HUNTING 48,858
79​
NON-RES MANAGED DEER HUNTING
18​
121​
RES LANDOWNER ARCHERY ANTLERLESS DEER 95,282
675​
NON-RES YOUTH ARCHER'S HUNTING
568​
101​
RES LANDOWNER FIREARMS ANTLERLESS DEER 88,192
683​
NON-RES YOUTH ARCHERY ANTLERLESS DEER
285​
100​
RES LANDOWNER FIREARMS ANY DEER 74,022
673​
NON-RES YOUTH FIREARM ANTLERLESS DEER
1139​
69​
RES MANAGED DEER HUNTING 3,366
670​
NON-RES YOUTH FIREARM ANY DEER HUNTING
2220​
660​
RES YOUTH ARCHER'S HUNTING 9,444
679​
NON-RES YOUTH MANAGED DEER HUNTING
2​
681​
RES YOUTH ARCHERY ANTLERLESS DEER 4,909
108​
NONRESIDENT LANDOWNER FIREARM DEER
805​
664​
RES YOUTH DMAP FIREARMS ANTLERLESS DEER 13Total
48890​
662​
RES YOUTH FIREARM ANTLERLESS DEER 25,137
665​
RES YOUTH FIREARM ANY DEER HUNTING 47,987
669​
RES YOUTH MANAGED DEER HUNTING 314
Total 973,737
Not sure these numbers are making your point. 973,700 res vs. 49,000 NR. NR are 5% roughly, how many need cut to help you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #230 ·
Apparently not because the deer population is growing and there was 100,000 less residents who hunted archery and firearm last season than in 2019.With over 1.1 million tags sold vs 55,000 tags sold its pretty easy to see the 55,000 ain’t hurting too much it’s less than 5% of tag sales.Take into account that a large majority of those tags hunt with outfitters,lease ground,permission farms,or family land and usually don’t hunt for more than 5-7 days tops per vacation and I don’t think it’s that much of a deal.I think we live in bubbles and if something effects us we automatically apply it to everywhere.They can make it all draw hunting for all I care I have no desire to mess with public ground anywhere for white tails where they allow a gun of any kind.Sorry your situation sucks I get it is prolly frustrating kinda like when I wanna go fish in Venice and everywhere you go there is a guide in the good spots that wants to yell if you get within 200 yards of them,but I just don’t see how I can find places to hunt from 14 hours away and someone who has lived there,their entire lives cannot find a single place to hunt other than one particular CA
I never said that I don't have other opportunities. For various reasons, its in my best interest to hunt close to home these days. Reform is in my backyard so to speak which means it's very convenient. The fact that I'm so close makes me very intimately familiar with how hunters utilize it, both RES & NR.
 

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I agree with some of your post there but in particular, is the statement " in a state that kills 90% or more 2.5 or younger deer " factual or just your opinion. If factual, can you post that or reference it? That seems like a high number to me.
It was just a guess based of numbers I had seen but after looking at them it’s around 75-80% are 2.5 or younger and 90% or more 3.5 or younger.Vast majority of hunters just don’t care about letting deer age much
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Discussion Starter · #233 ·
It was just a guess based of numbers I had seen but after looking at them it’s around 75-80% are 2.5 or younger and 90% or more 3.5 or younger.Vast majority of hunters just don’t care about letting deer age much View attachment 226459
The data is a little dated but I give you credit for following up with real numbers. Thanks for the info.
 

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I never said that I don't have other opportunities. For various reasons, its in my best interest to hunt close to home these days. Reform is in my backyard so to speak which means it's very convenient. The fact that I'm so close makes me very intimately familiar with how hunters utilize it, both RES & NR.
If you would have said from the very start that there are extenuating circumstances that prevent you from finding other opportunities, you would have avoided people coaching you on expanding your possibilities.

It sounds like you are just stuck then. I’d really concentrate on early season bow hunting, hunting through the week or other times you feel like there is less pressure.
If I was restricted to one CA, I’d be taking a lot of notes on when the parking lots are full, figuring out patterns that avoid that pressure, etc.
Even so, you might still have the opportunity to knock on doors within the same drive time if you see private lands around you. It may not yield anything but its worth a try. If you could double the time from home, you would still be close by and would open up a lot more opportunities for knocking on doors.
Just some random thoughts here, good luck.
 
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Vast majority of hunters just don’t care about letting deer age much
I think, especially after APR's were put in place, and guys got a taste of what it's like to pass on young bucks... That the correct way to state this is, "Most guys want to shoot an older, larger racked buck, but don't have the ability to let a younger Buck walk in hopes they will see a bigger one". It's the old, a bird in the hand, is worth more than 2 in the bush scenario...... Ya, guys want to kill a big'un, but they don't want to risk not killing a buck in order to do that. Pretty normal human behavior.
 

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I think, especially after APR's were put in place, and guys got a taste of what it's like to pass on young bucks... That the correct way to state this is, "Most guys want to shoot an older, larger racked buck, but don't have the ability to let a younger Buck walk in hopes they will see a bigger one". It's the old, a bird in the hand, is worth more than 2 in the bush scenario...... Ya, guys want to kill a big'un, but they don't want to risk not killing a buck in order to do that. Pretty normal human behavior.
Yeah pretty much it’s the “I gotta kill a buck” or I’m unsuccessful mentality.Mix that with a majority of hunters only participating in the gun season and it’s a recipe for shoot first legal buck and get back to life.And to be honest it don’t bother me,not everybody is a die hard hunter and that’s perfectly ok
 

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"Die hard hunter" = means be like antlercrazed? Because if you aren't like antlercrazed and don't share his ideas of a trophy and shoot what is legal and makes you happy then somehow you are a lesser hunter.
 

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"Die hard hunter" = means be like antlercrazed? Because if you aren't like antlercrazed and don't share his ideas of a trophy and shoot what is legal and makes you happy then somehow you are a lesser hunter.
I honestly don't know how you got that out of his comment..... Where does he say a non die hard hunter is a lesser hunter? Some people put more into hunting than others, that's all he is saying.... I put myself in the non-die hard hunter. I do it as recreation, I enjoy it, but it does not define my life.
 

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