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Discussion Starter · #201 ·
But what you are saying is, limit NR at a statewide level. But, the problem is at the CA level. To address CA level over use issues, putting those areas into managed hunt process is how MDC is most likely going to handle that. Which, will inlude you in the draw process, meaning you many not get to hunt reform on most years.
I have also suggested that NR tags can be sold as Public land tags or private land tags so MDC can track the trends. NR tags could even be sold in zones like Iowa does so as not to flood a specific area with pressure.
 

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You know that I'm not suggesting that we should "close our doors" to NR hunitng...just maybe not have the doors so wide open. It's kinda funny that there is so much pushback on this when other states do it and have always done it. Sometimes change is needed. If I'm in the minority then change will not happen. Time will tell.
Those states don’t have half the deer Missouri does.Like I said it’s based off how limited the resource is.The deer aren’t in danger.The herd has slowly grew actually since EHD was bad back a few years.So if the herd has grew an stabilized then the resource is fine an hunter numbers are fine.If they did anything it be take away a buck tag from everybody or maybe NR hunters and only give everybody 1 or just NRs 1 buck tag.Cause they want the hunters attracted to the state so they will hopefully kill a doe or two while they are here and make them $580 a pop
 

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Anyone who goes to a CA close to two major metropolitan areas during “peak hunting times” and expects it to not be busy is living amongst the clouds :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #204 ·
Those states don’t have half the deer Missouri does.Like I said it’s based off how limited the resource is.The deer aren’t in danger.The herd has slowly grew actually since EHD was bad back a few years.So if the herd has grew an stabilized then the resource is fine an hunter numbers are fine.If they did anything it be take away a buck tag from everybody or maybe NR hunters and only give everybody 1 or just NRs 1 buck tag.Cause they want the hunters attracted to the state so they will hopefully kill a doe or two while they are here and make them $580 a pop
I agree with you on the $. I think that is the driving force here. Easy money is addictive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #205 ·
Anyone who goes to a CA close to two major metropolitan areas during “peak hunting times” and expects it to not be busy is living amongst the clouds :)
NR's outnumber residents by 3 or 4 to 1. That's my point. Not that its busy during the rut. I have personal experience with this. Do you?
 

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Anyone who goes to a CA close to two major metropolitan areas during “peak hunting times” and expects it to not be busy is living amongst the clouds :)
I’ve been doing this all year close to the city. Saw hunters while I was on stand opening day of rifle & that’s it. Overall I see good deer sign & very little hunter sign. Seems like all the city dudes go to the big acreage, remote areas
 

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PMP63,
You might observe that some posters are short on experience but long on opinion. In their mind it evens out.
 
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Máistir an pointe hocht.
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PMP63,
You might observe that some posters are short on experience but long on opinion. In their mind it evens out.
I don't know if you are directing this at me, but I hunted public ground for many years before getting fed up with the nonsense of it all, and bought my place.

What I am trying to say, is that the most likely scenario you will be facing if you push to have pressure reduced on public CA's is they will fall into the managed hunt program. If you are so convinced MDC only cares about money, that makes sense in that regard too, cause you now will have to buy special tags to hunt there.

What I do believe is, the issue with CA's is not just NR's. And, putting more restrictions just on NR's is a slippery slope. Although, it does play well into the outfitters hands..... I don't want MO putting restrictions on NR's access to public ground, in part because of the amount of hunting I have done on other states public ground, but maybe you just hunt MO, and that don't matter to you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #209 ·
I don't know if you are directing this at me, but I hunted public ground for many years before getting fed up with the nonsense of it all, and bought my place.

What I am trying to say, is that the most likely scenario you will be facing if you push to have pressure reduced on public CA's is they will fall into the managed hunt program. If you are so convinced MDC only cares about money, that makes sense in that regard too, cause you now will have to buy special tags to hunt there.

What I do believe is, the issue with CA's is not just NR's. And, putting more restrictions just on NR's is a slippery slope. Although, it does play well into the outfitters hands..... I don't want MO putting restrictions on NR's access to public ground, in part because of the amount of hunting I have done on other states public ground, but maybe you just hunt MO, and that don't matter to you.
I understand your perspective but I have a question, do the other states you hunt allow unlimted NR tags and unlimited public land access? Are tags sold for specific zones or statewide? Is the process a "free for all" like MO or is it more controlled? I would think that even NR's coming to MO to hunt would appreciate a higher quality experience on public ground.
 

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I don't know if you are directing this at me, but I hunted public ground for many years before getting fed up with the nonsense of it all, and bought my place.

What I am trying to say, is that the most likely scenario you will be facing if you push to have pressure reduced on public CA's is they will fall into the managed hunt program. If you are so convinced MDC only cares about money, that makes sense in that regard too, cause you now will have to buy special tags to hunt there.

What I do believe is, the issue with CA's is not just NR's. And, putting more restrictions just on NR's is a slippery slope. Although, it does play well into the outfitters hands..... I don't want MO putting restrictions on NR's access to public ground, in part because of the amount of hunting I have done on other states public ground, but maybe you just hunt MO, and that don't matter to you.
He’s directing it at me but he doesn’t know either one of us so I really wonder who is “short on experience” as far as that goes.

I’ve met all kinds of folks on here personally that I had an opinion of prior, found out I was all wet.

But if I haven’t given any good advice to the OP regarding how much work successfully hunting public land can be, just tell me so. I did it for MANY years and had success hunting deer, turkey, rabbits, quail, squirrels and fishing public waters. The one thing I learned through all of that is that complaining about the regulations is far less productive than doing the actual work and setting your expectations accordingly.
 

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I understand your perspective but I have a question, do the other states you hunt allow unlimted NR tags and unlimited public land access? Are tags sold for specific zones or statewide? Is the process a "free for all" like MO or is it more controlled? I would think that even NR's coming to MO to hunt would appreciate a higher quality experience on public ground.
Sorry to quote you when you are talking to someone else, but I’ll give a couple of examples of how things can be.
I started turkey hunting in KS about 17 years ago I think. It was a bonanza for WIHA for OOS hunters, had a lot of success. That turned out to be very popular, word got out and we started running into a lot of other OOS hunters. We had to drive farther than we used to, seek out other areas (the turkey hunting atlas is great there), and yes, knock on doors. Same in Nebraska. Same in KS for pheasants as we did a LOT of that, lots of walking, talking to landowners, reciprocating when you get permission, etc. I ended up getting invited that way with a large landowner north of Hays that we ran into, still friends with them to this day.

Point is, once the word is out, public lands can be pressured but that’s not the end of the game necessarily.

And again, I don’t disagree that the NR regs here don’t need changes. I agree that reciprocal pricing for OOS tags is out of whack here. If you are a turkey hunter, just wait to see what happens on public ground here once we go to ADH. Not sure if you turkey hunt or not, but states like KS and NE get pressured a lot because there is more time to hunt. OOS hunters in MO now have to shut down at 1pm with nothing else to do. It will become a lot more attractive when they can shoot birds going to roost, etc.

Again, I agree with your plight and agree that modifications could be made to relieve some of that pressure. But once there is parking available at state ground, it wont take long for word to get out. IMO, and per @MOGC I have zero practical experience on this evidently.
 

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It is a complicated and complex issue. Missouri has a lot of deer and lots of public land to hunt. Tags are OTC and cheep. The 2 fellas I met from South Carolina on a tiny 75 acre public tract on Sunday, 2nd day of rifle season said low cost and OTC was their determining factor for coming here. Said they just hate walking in on someone else and every other public spot they visited was packed. I wish all OOS hunters had the same manners as they did. Helped them pick out a good spot and I still managed to arrow a doe that evening. They saw deer but were holding out for a buck.
IMO we are the number 1 destination for out of state hunters. This year alone I’ve seen LA, MS, SC, MI, WI, PA and AR plates on public. Does anyone think there’s another state that gets as many NR hunters as we do? I doubt it.
It would be nice if MDC had more data on how much OOS pressure we receive. I primarily bow hunt public ground in northern MO and places that were previously deserted before gun season have OOS hunters hunting and camping starting the middle of October like I’ve never seen before. Been getting worse every year. I blame YouTube for the rise in popularity of out of state hunting and nowadays everyone’s got an app like OnX or HuntStand to locate every public parcel available. I miss the old days when you actually had to look up public spots in the MDC booklet and search them out. I do feel like residents are getting the short end of the stick as far as public land goes. Wish they’d raise tag prices or enact a draw for OOS hunters. I did manage to arrow a good buck on public, despite the added pressure.
 

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Congrats, it can be done.

I completely agree that there should be reciprocity in how the tags are managed and priced. As I said, wait until turkey regs are liberalized.
 
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It is a complicated and complex issue. Missouri has a lot of deer and lots of public land to hunt. Tags are OTC and cheep. The 2 fellas I met from South Carolina on a tiny 75 acre public tract on Sunday, 2nd day of rifle season said low cost and OTC was their determining factor for coming here. Said they just hate walking in on someone else and every other public spot they visited was packed. I wish all OOS hunters had the same manners as they did. Helped them pick out a good spot and I still managed to arrow a doe that evening. They saw deer but were holding out for a buck.
IMO we are the number 1 destination for out of state hunters. This year alone I’ve seen LA, MS, SC, MI, WI, PA and AR plates on public. Does anyone think there’s another state that gets as many NR hunters as we do? I doubt it.
It would be nice if MDC had more data on how much OOS pressure we receive. I primarily bow hunt public ground in northern MO and places that were previously deserted before gun season have OOS hunters hunting and camping starting the middle of October like I’ve never seen before. Been getting worse every year. I blame YouTube for the rise in popularity of out of state hunting and nowadays everyone’s got an app like OnX or HuntStand to locate every public parcel available. I miss the old days when you actually had to look up public spots in the MDC booklet and search them out. I do feel like residents are getting the short end of the stick as far as public land goes. Wish they’d raise tag prices or enact a draw for OOS hunters. I did manage to arrow a good buck on public, despite the added pressure.
The only other state that gets more out of state hunters I would imagine is MS because everybody I know from where I’m from in Louisiana hunts in MS either in the natural forest or in a club.Growing up where there is no good deer on average cause it’s all pine plantation and subdivisions sucks.Wish they would go to reciprocating tags cause it save me a lot of money cause you can come buy a fishing license,Turkey,deer,whatever you name it for cheaper than it cost me to hunt Missouri.Truth be told the amount of tags Missouri sells each year there is no excuse for them to not have a program to purchase public lands or create some type of high paying Crp program that only pays if you open land to public hunting and MDC assumes the liability if someone gets hurt.Idk I think all states not just Missouri could find ways to protect land from being used for a subdivision and promote hunting
 

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Congrats, it can be done.

I completely agree that there should be reciprocity in how the tags are managed and priced. As I said, wait until turkey regs are liberalized.
I would be fine if they made states that make you draw to hunt draw for them if they wanna hunt Missouri and even as a NR I would be fine with 1 buck tag.I have only killed 6-7 bucks in 12 years so I don’t think it will effect me much lol
 

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Just so we all know the tag sale numbers for residents its around 1.1million and for non residents it’s around 55,000.Also overall from 2019 to 2020 the state lost around 100,000 resident hunters.So by default without limiting anything hunter numbers declined overal at a high rate
 

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I ended up getting invited that way with a large landowner north of Hays that we ran into, still friends with them to this day.
I grew up hunting Pheasants up by Plainville,Rooks county, one of my dad's WW II buddies owned lots of land up that way.


fyi for those who do not know, in Kansas oos archery deer hunters have to put in for a primary unit and an adjacent secondary unit. I have no idea about rifle hunters.

this year was the first time that all 23,000 oos permits were issued and over 8,000 failed to get drawn
 

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My god that's nuts. For a guy who hunts IL a lot, I do not get this sentiment from you of all people.

I have killed 3/4 of my Mule deer on "public" ground in Montana..... God forbid they do not allow NR's to hunt it anymore.

Now, if they want to control the # of people who hunt it, that's fine, put it under managed hunt status if it's getting too much pressure. But this NR hate stuff, I do not get, not one bit. They spend money on tags, and sporting equipment in this state, money that goes to MDC. Heck, some of them spend a lot more than residents.

Be very careful what you wish for here Bob, it could easily come back to bite you....
I’m not sure how many residents of Montana hunt there, do you think it is close to 500,000.

PS. IL has public lands that are for residents ONLy!
 
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