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It's not all about you and your experiences or other groups that you know...or me and my experiences. Many of us feel that some changes can be made to improve both the deer herd and the overall hunting experience. We're not all going to agree on everything but that doesn't mean we don't discuss it and try to seek to improvement. I just feel that NR's shouldn't voice such strong opinions about such things when they are just a visitor to the state. If I was invited to go eat dinner at a friends house, I wouldn't feel comfortable telling them what to cook and how to cook it because I'm a visitor. I look at hunting out of state the same way. I appreciate the opportunity to hunt other states but none of my business how things are managed. I just show up and follow the rules they have in place.
We own a house,pay taxes,an have 15 years invested. So yeah I care
 

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Guilty, nah, I don't feel guilty at all, I feel bad that I wanted to kick dirt on the buck i killed when any southern deer hunter would have paraded him around the town square! Understand this, I will glady shoot a 150" or 170" 1.5yo much less a 3.5yo buck!! I warms my heart how good some of you think you can age a deer on the hoof, 170" free range 3.5yo :rolleyes: ....we will just leave it at that!! Those dream utopias already happen in KS, IA, IL, OH, WI and other states that don't have a 12-day OTC tags firearms season smack in the peak of the peak rut! Plus, some of those states limit OOS hunter numbers and put their residents first. You mention the MDC could make easy changes to alleviate NR pressure on public ground (and I agree). That same MDC could make much needed and easy tweaks to the firearms season that would allow for a better age structure and still allow anyone to shoot what they choose; I mean they have not been trying to grow the herd for a couple decades and still have the same management plan!

Feel free to show me one, just one place where I ever said ban crossbows? Again, I can't help you understand things as simple as a better age structure allows more mature deer, for everyone to hunt.
When they pass a law saying crossbows are legal and you say they should not be allowed during archery season then yes you would like them banned for archery season. Pretty easy to understand your stance on that lol. Residents are shooting all your young deer wether you want to admit that or not and that’s your biggest issue is you can’t seem to understand that most residents don’t care about killing a huge buck. They literally hunt 12 days a year,shoot a buck,shoot a doe,go back to doing their life. Unfortunately that’s how the season is setup. Is it the greatest for top end caliber deer prolly not. But does it suck,no not really. There is still plenty of good deer hunting to be had. Also I don’t think $15-$20 is an unfair price per acre for deer hunting.Go rent a duck or lease duck hunting land and see how fun that is,never understood people paying $10,000 a year to kill a duck but more power to them
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
When they pass a law saying crossbows are legal and you say they should not be allowed during archery season then yes you would like them banned for archery season. Pretty easy to understand your stance on that lol. Residents are shooting all your young deer wether you want to admit that or not and that’s your biggest issue is you can’t seem to understand that most residents don’t care about killing a huge buck. They literally hunt 12 days a year,shoot a buck,shoot a doe,go back to doing their life. Unfortunately that’s how the season is setup. Is it the greatest for top end caliber deer prolly not. But does it suck,no not really. There is still plenty of good deer hunting to be had. Also I don’t think $15-$20 is an unfair price per acre for deer hunting.Go rent a duck or lease duck hunting land and see how fun that is,never understood people paying $10,000 a year to kill a duck but more power to them
Back up the bus, crossbows were legal with a doctor release, never heard one person say they anyone using a medical release should not be allowed to participate. 100% correct, once they mentioned including them for everyone, hell ya that is a major concern, and unfortunately the majority of archery hunters don't spend time on hunting forums and were oblivious that the MDC was going to include them for any able-bodied cheat too lazy to hunt archery with an actual bow! Unfortunately, the MDC tends to NOT listen to the hunters and just implement what a few of them deem necessary. If you think the majority of firearms hunters are hunting 12 days, you would be way off. Lease prices are what they are these days, and it is is largely due to OOS hunters and outfitters (which go hand in hand). You mention $10,000 for ducks, well I am seeing 400 acres deer leases are going for $10,000, both seem crazy, but unfortunately everyone keeps saying we need more hunters and hunter numbers are down......that doesn't seem to be the case as it relates to available ground and such. I would like to see the numbers, but there are sure seem to be far more hunters NOW than when I started in 1994 or so.
 

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We own a house,pay taxes,an have 15 years invested. So yeah I care
Its good that you care and I'm not saying you shouldn't have an opinion but that opinion is just that and you or any other NR should not have any influence in the process of establishing or changing our game laws or deer management practices. If you want to become a resident so that you can have an influence on these matters then I'd welcome you. Otherwise, enjoy it as long as you can. Nothing stays the same forever. Change will eventually come for better or worse.
 

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Back up the bus, crossbows were legal with a doctor release, never heard one person say they anyone using a medical release should not be allowed to participate. 100% correct, once they mentioned including them for everyone, hell ya that is a major concern, and unfortunately the majority of archery hunters don't spend time on hunting forums and were oblivious that the MDC was going to include them for any able-bodied cheat too lazy to hunt archery with an actual bow! Unfortunately, the MDC tends to NOT listen to the hunters and just implement what a few of them deem necessary. If you think the majority of firearms hunters are hunting 12 days, you would be way off. Lease prices are what they are these days, and it is is largely due to OOS hunters and outfitters (which go hand in hand). You mention $10,000 for ducks, well I am seeing 400 acres deer leases are going for $10,000, both seem crazy, but unfortunately everyone keeps saying we need more hunters and hunter numbers are down......that doesn't seem to be the case as it relates to available ground and such. I would like to see the numbers, but there are sure seem to be far more hunters NOW than when I started in 1994 or so.
Most firearms only hunters hunt 12 days and maybe doe only season and that’s a big maybe. Not many people have the resources to compete with someone who has 15 acres of beans planted right down the road. I have hunted late season multiple times with zero food sources and some years with food sources. Needless to say without a food source it was like hunting for water in a desert. And who cares if some 18 year old kid wants to hunt with a crossbow or some 45 year old wants to that is capable of shooting a bow if they really wanted to. Most diehard bow hunters still just just the compound I know I do. But I don’t care if somebody uses a crossbow. For safety reasons I think all public land should be bow an crossbow only to begin with but that isn’t my call. I just hate seeing people get shot an killed every year over the crap. And if someone can get $10,000 to lease out their 400 acres how is that a bad thing exactly?Would it only be good if you could hunt it for free?I can understand the logic of limiting public land access as long as it’s not a national forest that gets full government funding from tax dollars from everyone. But I think anybody should be able to hunt private land in any state over the counter and the government should make laws for limits but not access to it. I think it’s a crock of crap if I own 500 acres in Iowa and I wanted to invite you or anybody to hunt it that you can’t get a special tag to hunt my place sort of like a landowner tag. I guess I just see things with a more open view and really don’t give two ****s about a deer that much to want to limit it to a point where everyone just stay in your own state and you hunt what you have there. The hunting in Missouri isn’t near about the doom an gloom some would have you believe or at least nowhere where I have ever hunted.
 

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Its good that you care and I'm not saying you shouldn't have an opinion but that opinion is just that and you or any other NR should not have any influence in the process of establishing or changing our game laws or deer management practices. If you want to become a resident so that you can have an influence on these matters then I'd welcome you. Otherwise, enjoy it as long as you can. Nothing stays the same forever. Change will eventually come for better or worse.
Hate to tell you but apparently NRs pay enough money and reply to stuff that is sent from the MDC Via email that there must be some say so,cause nothing gets don’t to limit access.Hell Missouri doesn’t even protect button bucks an spikes. They don’t care about deer getting old I can tell ya
 

· Mt Sterling, Mo
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I do think MO needs to get control over public land better than they do, with more draw only hunts, etc. Most of them are complete chiiitshow come rifle season, and many are that way late archery now too.
Next there will be DrRAWS at every CA across the state
 

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One thing i have not seen mentioned in all the above is setting your own rules for the property you own or hunt with your group. If someone kills a buck during bow season you don't get to shoot a buck during rifle season, MDC sets limits but you can have your own rules that are less than that on your own property with your own group. I did not kill a buck this year i let a couple 130-140 bucks pass and unknown 100-120 bucks go this year. I finally killed 2 does in alternative season with an Encore pistol. You can always self regulate within MDC regulations to do your part if you feel changes are necessary. If you have too many does you can make it shoot a doe before you shoot a buck and so forth, or any buck taken has to be over 150" or pay a fine, that will definately limit the number of bucks taken, type rules. You can always take less game than what MDC mandates and do your part to improve the land you hunt as long as it is within the rules of MDC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
Most firearms only hunters hunt 12 days and maybe doe only season and that’s a big maybe. Not many people have the resources to compete with someone who has 15 acres of beans planted right down the road. I have hunted late season multiple times with zero food sources and some years with food sources. Needless to say without a food source it was like hunting for water in a desert. And who cares if some 18 year old kid wants to hunt with a crossbow or some 45 year old wants to that is capable of shooting a bow if they really wanted to. Most diehard bow hunters still just just the compound I know I do. But I don’t care if somebody uses a crossbow. For safety reasons I think all public land should be bow an crossbow only to begin with but that isn’t my call. I just hate seeing people get shot an killed every year over the crap. And if someone can get $10,000 to lease out their 400 acres how is that a bad thing exactly?Would it only be good if you could hunt it for free?I can understand the logic of limiting public land access as long as it’s not a national forest that gets full government funding from tax dollars from everyone. But I think anybody should be able to hunt private land in any state over the counter and the government should make laws for limits but not access to it. I think it’s a crock of crap if I own 500 acres in Iowa and I wanted to invite you or anybody to hunt it that you can’t get a special tag to hunt my place sort of like a landowner tag. I guess I just see things with a more open view and really don’t give two ****s about a deer that much to want to limit it to a point where everyone just stay in your own state and you hunt what you have there. The hunting in Missouri isn’t near about the doom an gloom some would have you believe or at least nowhere where I have ever hunted.
Iowa's DNR helps their residents, and that's not a load of crap!
 

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One thing i have not seen mentioned in all the above is setting your own rules for the property you own or hunt with your group. If someone kills a buck during bow season you don't get to shoot a buck during rifle season, MDC sets limits but you can have your own rules that are less than that on your own property with your own group. I did not kill a buck this year i let a couple 130-140 bucks pass and unknown 100-120 bucks go this year. I finally killed 2 does in alternative season with an Encore pistol. You can always self regulate within MDC regulations to do your part if you feel changes are necessary. If you have too many does you can make it shoot a doe before you shoot a buck and so forth, or any buck taken has to be over 150" or pay a fine, that will definately limit the number of bucks taken, type rules. You can always take less game than what MDC mandates and do your part to improve the land you hunt as long as it is within the rules of MDC.
All you say is true and I too have let many 130 - 140 class deer walk over the years. The individual decisions that we all make to pull the trigger or unleash the arrow effect things on a micro level. State mandated regulations effect things on a macro level. If an individual or group has control of enough property and they set their rules, that can certainly change the herd dynamics where they hunt. I think that is great but obviously everyone doesn't have that opportunity.
 

· Mt Sterling, Mo
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. If an individual or group has control of enough property and they set their rules, that can certainly change the herd dynamics where they hunt. I think that is great but obviously everyone doesn't have that opportunity.
[/QUOTE]
Opportunity or Mentality ?
 

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. If an individual or group has control of enough property and they set their rules, that can certainly change the herd dynamics where they hunt. I think that is great but obviously everyone doesn't have that opportunity.
Opportunity or Mentality ?
[/QUOTE]
Opportunity…I didn’t misspell it. Are you saying that everyone can afford a large lease or their own farm? Maybe you should elaborate?
 

· Máistir an pointe hocht.
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On the opportunity vs mentality thing.

as someone who owns a very small sub 100 acre place to hunt. Although I know that any buck over 120” has a chance to be shot if I pass it, I also know I can’t kill it next year, if I kill it now. My new neighbor and I are both trying to let them grow, the outfitter near me, I cant speak for his clients. Just killed enough younger bucks in my life, I can pass on them easily even if it means someone else kills it.

so it’s a little of both imho. 👍🏻
 

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I totally get it. My best 2 deer with a bow are a 160” 10pt and a 168” 12 pt. I’ve had close encounters with larger bucks as well. I routinely pass on 130 -140 class bucks. I hunted with rifle this year for the 1st time in over 20 yrs. Bow only since 2000 or so. I bought a new 7mm-08 this fall and I was itching to take a deer with it. I wanted the 1st to be a buck. I got an opportunity at a mature 8 with really good mass and took him. I personally think the deer was about as good as he’d ever get. Happy with that deer and the hunt. Every deer doesn’t have the potential to be a booner. My point is, I think everyone should shoot what makes them happy but to impact the herd on a macro level, regulation change has the most impact.
 

· Máistir an pointe hocht.
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I totally get it. My best 2 deer with a bow are a 160” 10pt and a 168” 12 pt. I’ve had close encounters with larger bucks as well. I routinely pass on 130 -140 class bucks. I hunted with rifle this year for the 1st time in over 20 yrs. Bow only since 2000 or so. I bought a new 7mm-08 this fall and I was itching to take a deer with it. I wanted the 1st to be a buck. I got an opportunity at a mature 8 with really good mass and took him. I personally think the deer was about as good as he’d ever get. Happy with that deer and the hunt. Every deer doesn’t have the potential to be a booner. My point is, I think everyone should shoot what makes them happy but to impact the herd on a macro level, regulation change has the most impact.
110% agree. You are doin it right!👍🏻👍🏻. But I don’t see reg changes happening that would reduce harvest numbers, i just dont.
 
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110% agree. You are doin it right!👍🏻👍🏻. But I don’t see reg changes happening that would reduce harvest numbers, i just dont.
I just do what I think is right for me and I love the challenge but everyone should do what makes them happy within the regs. I’d love to see some tweaks in the regs that have the potential to improve quality but if that doesn’t happen, I’ll still be out there enjoying whatever opportunities are available.
 

· Mt Sterling, Mo
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Mentality as in waiting for the 1.5 yr old to grow up to 4.5 yr old ........Im saying most missourians have tags ,,,You're suppose to fill em with any legal deer right ? Thats money wasted if you dont fill them
 

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Mentality as in waiting for the 1.5 yr old to grow up to 4.5 yr old ........Im saying most missourians have tags ,,,You're suppose to fill em with any legal deer right ? Thats money wasted if you dont fill them
That is one way a hunter could look at it, and likely the way most do during firearms
 

· Máistir an pointe hocht.
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Mentality as in waiting for the 1.5 yr old to grow up to 4.5 yr old ........Im saying most missourians have tags ,,,You're suppose to fill em with any legal deer right ? Thats money wasted if you dont fill them
There are a lot who feel this way, no doubt. Honestly there is a broad spectrum of hunters here in MO. Most who participate in archery season, are dedicated deer hunters, Rifle season you will have those dedicated deer hunters, guys who just want to be at camp, and those who just want to kill a deer, any deer. While at a base level I agree with 20's sentiments on deer hunting..... I just don't feel it's very realistic. Because, there are more than just the dedicated deer hunters to make happy. So, while I would actually support some of the changes he has proposed, I just don't see it happening, because I firmly believe MDC deer regs are more about population control, than enything else. Keeping the population in check is their no1 goal..... it is, what it is. And, you know what... Mo does have some seriously good deer hunting, and you can do things on the place you hunt, to make it what you want if you make a serious effort.... IMHO :D
 
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