[pmpeaks63]

Putting OBR on NR's would save what, a handfull of bucks? I still say, you want to see more bigger bucks on the place you hunt, don't shoot them when they are sub 160" bucks.... That 150" buck has a much better chance of becoming a 160" plus deer on your wall if you don't shoot him, then telling NR's who probably don't even hunt near you they can only kill one buck next year.

I guess I see things to simply though, as changing regs for the whole state in an attempt to accomplish what you are not willing to sacrifice for to see it happen, does not make much sense to me. But, I fully understand that is my opinion, and some may not agree with it, and that's ok.....

Why would you feel NR's should be allowed 2 bucks? Doesn't matter to me if it's a handfull or 2000 spared. I just think OBR would make everyone be more picky about the buck they shoot and maybe result in an increase in doe harvest by residents and NR's alike. If population control is what it's all about then we need to encourage an increase in doe harvest.

 

[callaojoe]

Why would you feel NR's should be allowed 2 bucks? Doesn't matter to me if it's a handfull or 2000 spared. I just think OBR would make everyone be more picky about the buck they shoot and maybe result in an increase in doe harvest by residents and NR's alike. If population control is what it's all about then we need to encourage an increase in doe harvest.

Then do OBR for everyone. Why just NR’s?

 

[pmpeaks63]

Exactly, we have circled back to my original proposal of a OBR for all that wasn’t to well liked by our friend AntlerCrazed. That’s why I decided to look at it from his view as a NR. In my mind, any NR visiting any state for hunting big game should expect a restricted opportunity as compared to tax paying residents. Cost of tags, restricted units, less draw opportunities for special hunts, OBR, are just some of the ways many states manage NR vs resident. I still feel that Missouri is over run by NR for deer hunting often times at the expense of residents. It’s gotten to the point that it’s all about the money with recreational land and hunting lease prices reaching the ridiculous threshold. Add to that the public hunting areas north of the MO River receiving an unbelievable amount of pressure from NR as well. If I could dial it in any way I wanted I’d go with a OBR for all, more effectively manage NR opportunities, especially on public ground and move rifle season back a week so that it starts the Saturday before Thanksgiving. Just my 2 cents.

 

[antlercrazed]

OBR is not favored by the majority of any kind NR or Resident. And public land is an easy fix im sorry your state isn’t apparently intelligent enough to learn how to have restricted public land. Most all the good public land even in Ms is bow only and special draw hunts and closed during certain dates all together. Also most NR are going in a 2 week time frame so if you can’t figure out how to beat the pressure with an entire season to hunt that’s your own fault. Also there is still cheap leases to be had and affordable leases,there is also cheap houses to be had to setup a base camp,and I know of plenty of my buddies who are residents who still hunt off permission.It’s amazing that a NR can find land to hunt 1000 miles away and have success most years but a resident can’t seem to find anywhere to hunt at no time during the season. Even guys I know that hunt public find low pressured places every year and have success but somehow people who live there can’t. I’m not even against a one buck rule cause it will effect me none I have killed 2 in a season once in 15 years. But I don’t think the masses of residents would ever be for it just like most don’t want rifle season changed. It could be one buck an bow only all season and I wouldn’t care,be quite fun. But I’m not somebody who thinks I need to regulate everybody to somehow make things easy for myself. If that was the case I would make non resident fishing license $700 so nobody would want to come down here so I could afford a camp in Venice and get rid of all the guides so the best spots wasn’t always filled with people

 

[pmpeaks63]

OBR is not favored by the majority of any kind NR or Resident. And public land is an easy fix im sorry your state isn’t apparently intelligent enough to learn how to have restricted public land. Most all the good public land even in Ms is bow only and special draw hunts and closed during certain dates all together. Also most NR are going in a 2 week time frame so if you can’t figure out how to beat the pressure with an entire season to hunt that’s your own fault. Also there is still cheap leases to be had and affordable leases,there is also cheap houses to be had to setup a base camp,and I know of plenty of my buddies who are residents who still hunt off permission.It’s amazing that a NR can find land to hunt 1000 miles away and have success most years but a resident can’t seem to find anywhere to hunt at no time during the season. Even guys I know that hunt public find low pressured places every year and have success but somehow people who live there can’t. I’m not even against a one buck rule cause it will effect me none I have killed 2 in a season once in 15 years. But I don’t think the masses of residents would ever be for it just like most don’t want rifle season changed. It could be one buck an bow only all season and I wouldn’t care,be quite fun. But I’m not somebody who thinks I need to regulate everybody to somehow make things easy for myself. If that was the case I would make non resident fishing license $700 so nobody would want to come down here so I could afford a camp in Venice and get rid of all the guides so the best spots wasn’t always filled with people

You know, I feel better now. I don’t have to be concerned about it anymore because you’ve got it all figured out. Maybe the best answer is that we manage our wildlife resources here in MO to appease NR’s only.

OBR is not favored by the majority of any kind NR or Resident. And public land is an easy fix im sorry your state isn’t apparently intelligent enough to learn how to have restricted public land. Most all the good public land even in Ms is bow only and special draw hunts and closed during certain dates all together. Also most NR are going in a 2 week time frame so if you can’t figure out how to beat the pressure with an entire season to hunt that’s your own fault. Also there is still cheap leases to be had and affordable leases,there is also cheap houses to be had to setup a base camp,and I know of plenty of my buddies who are residents who still hunt off permission.It’s amazing that a NR can find land to hunt 1000 miles away and have success most years but a resident can’t seem to find anywhere to hunt at no time during the season. Even guys I know that hunt public find low pressured places every year and have success but somehow people who live there can’t. I’m not even against a one buck rule cause it will effect me none I have killed 2 in a season once in 15 years. But I don’t think the masses of residents would ever be for it just like most don’t want rifle season changed. It could be one buck an bow only all season and I wouldn’t care,be quite fun. But I’m not somebody who thinks I need to regulate everybody to somehow make things easy for myself. If that was the case I would make non resident fishing license $700 so nobody would want to come down here so I could afford a camp in Venice and get rid of all the guides so the best spots wasn’t always filled with people

I have a great idea. No NR hunting allowed during the month of November. As a NR, how excited would you be to invest your time and money to hunt MO if you couldn’t hunt in November? Obviously I’m not serious about the no hunting in November but when you say most NR’s are coming for 2 weeks it’s actually 3 weeks. Halloween through end of gun season. We all love to hunt the rut and MO is a great place to do it. I stand by my opinion that NR pressure has a significant negative impact on the quality of hunting opportunities available to tax paying residents. That’s not the fault of NR’s. It’s the fault of MDC for not looking out for the best interests of tax paying hunters. I have my opinions on what I think would be improvements but at the end of the day, I’m going to continue to hunt just like I have for the past 50 years and take advantage of whatever opportunities are available.

 

[callaojoe]

Helpful advice.....

 

[antlercrazed]

You know, I feel better now. I don’t have to be concerned about it anymore because you’ve got it all figured out. Maybe the best answer is that we manage our wildlife resources here in MO to appease NR’s only.

I have a great idea. No NR hunting allowed during the month of November. As a NR, how excited would you be to invest your time and money to hunt MO if you couldn’t hunt in November? Obviously I’m not serious about the no hunting in November but when you say most NR’s are coming for 2 weeks it’s actually 3 weeks. Halloween through end of gun season. We all love to hunt the rut and MO is a great place to do it. I stand by my opinion that NR pressure has a significant negative impact on the quality of hunting opportunities available to tax paying residents. That’s not the fault of NR’s. It’s the fault of MDC for not looking out for the best interests of tax paying hunters. I have my opinions on what I think would be improvements but at the end of the day, I’m going to continue to hunt just like I have for the past 50 years and take advantage of whatever opportunities are available.

And I done told you how you deal with pressure on public land. You make areas of public only for residents and a strict draw program an close it for certain days. It isn’t hard. I just find it funny I know of 2 groups that went and found public this year to hunt and all killed some solid deer and a couple studs bigger than anything I have killed on private but apparently there is no public to hunt that’s worth a crap. And yes I do have it figured out it’s called I hunt hard an only shoot what makes me happy and some years I don’t fill a tag hell I have gone 4 years in a row with only killing does. I still had a great time and I love going to our house up there even when it isn’t deer season.

 

[20']

But I’m not somebody who thinks

you could have just typed this![/QUOTE]

 

[pmpeaks63]

And I done told you how you deal with pressure on public land. You make areas of public only for residents and a strict draw program an close it for certain days. It isn’t hard. I just find it funny I know of 2 groups that went and found public this year to hunt and all killed some solid deer and a couple studs bigger than anything I have killed on private but apparently there is no public to hunt that’s worth a crap. And yes I do have it figured out it’s called I hunt hard an only shoot what makes me happy and some years I don’t fill a tag hell I have gone 4 years in a row with only killing does. I still had a great time and I love going to our house up there even when it isn’t deer season.

It's not all about you and your experiences or other groups that you know...or me and my experiences. Many of us feel that some changes can be made to improve both the deer herd and the overall hunting experience. We're not all going to agree on everything but that doesn't mean we don't discuss it and try to seek to improvement. I just feel that NR's shouldn't voice such strong opinions about such things when they are just a visitor to the state. If I was invited to go eat dinner at a friends house, I wouldn't feel comfortable telling them what to cook and how to cook it because I'm a visitor. I look at hunting out of state the same way. I appreciate the opportunity to hunt other states but none of my business how things are managed. I just show up and follow the rules they have in place.

 

[callaojoe]

Personally, I've never understood the logic behind dislike of someone hunting in your state, just because they don't live there. But, we see it in every state where hunting occurs, some more than others, IL for instance is a very much anti-NR state.

I hunt in several other states, and don't want them hating on me, although some do.... I just don't understand it, we're all Americans in my book, just because I live here or there really don't matter to me. I welcome NR hunters to MO, the same I welcome residents. Get out there, enjoy your time in the woods. If hunting is negatively impacting game numbers, that's where limits and season length come in to play. If there is public land getting too much pressure, put it into a draw quota format. But biiitching about someone because they live across some arbitrary line is silly in my book.

I also don't believe anyone should ever have to pay more than $100 for a freak'n whitetail tag. But hey, that's just me.

 

[20']

Awww you feeling guilty I see. Funny I didn’t name anybody but you spoke up lol. Nope you never said ban crossbows and you didn’t say making NR have 1 buck tag you would support lol. And like I said but you fail to understand math. If every non resident killed nothing but 2.5 year olds do you know how many amounts of deer that age and younger than that has to be killed by residents to make the average harvest for the entire state to be 1.5-2.5 year old bucks. It’s not even close. And since you are feeling guilty you must be owning up to shooting some 3.5 year olds so apparently you aren’t even willing to pass a good young deer to begin with so when your dream utopia happens and there is more big deer to shoot are you going to pass a 150” 3.5 year old?What about a 170” 3.5 year old?If you would shoot a big 3.5 year old then someone shooting what you would call a dink that’s 3.5 you are no better than them. My buddies and me must be the greatest hunters alive since we kill and see lots of big deer that apparently don’t exist lol

Guilty, nah, I don't feel guilty at all, I feel bad that I wanted to kick dirt on the buck i killed when any southern deer hunter would have paraded him around the town square! Understand this, I will glady shoot a 150" or 170" 1.5yo much less a 3.5yo buck!! I warms my heart how good some of you think you can age a deer on the hoof, 170" free range 3.5yo ....we will just leave it at that!! Those dream utopias already happen in KS, IA, IL, OH, WI and other states that don't have a 12-day OTC tags firearms season smack in the peak of the peak rut! Plus, some of those states limit OOS hunter numbers and put their residents first. You mention the MDC could make easy changes to alleviate NR pressure on public ground (and I agree). That same MDC could make much needed and easy tweaks to the firearms season that would allow for a better age structure and still allow anyone to shoot what they choose; I mean they have not been trying to grow the herd for a couple decades and still have the same management plan!

Feel free to show me one, just one place where I ever said ban crossbows? Again, I can't help you understand things as simple as a better age structure allows more mature deer, for everyone to hunt.

 

[20']

Personally, I've never understood the logic behind dislike of someone hunting in your state, just because they don't live there. But, we see it in every state where hunting occurs, some more than others, IL for instance is a very much anti-NR state.

I hunt in several other states, and don't want them hating on me, although some do.... I just don't understand it, we're all Americans in my book, just because I live here or there really don't matter to me. I welcome NR hunters to MO, the same I welcome residents. Get out there, enjoy your time in the woods. If hunting is negatively impacting game numbers, that's where limits and season length come in to play. If there is public land getting too much pressure, put it into a draw quota format. But biiitching about someone because they live across some arbitrary line is silly in my book.

I also don't believe anyone should ever have to pay more than $100 for a freak'n whitetail tag. But hey, that's just me.

I honestly don't have an issue with NR hunters, but I don't think for a minute they should get the same opportunity/tags as the residents of that state! I have mentioned it before, there is no-way NR should take a managed hunt spot from a resident that has applied. I do like the thought of NR fees being reciprocal with what their home state charges NR.

I do believe that Iowa does it right not guaranteeing NR tags and it helps keep leases prices down and resident opportunities open!

 

[callaojoe]

I honestly don't have an issue with NR hunters, but I don't think for a minute they should get the same opportunity/tags as the residents of that state! I have mentioned it before, there is no-way NR should take a managed hunt spot from a resident that has applied. I do like the thought of NR fees being reciprocal with what their home state charges NR.

I do believe that Iowa does it right not guaranteeing NR tags and it helps keep leases prices down and resident opportunities open!

So, you would like it if IL treated you like an alien as well.... NR Tags is not an issue in this State....

 

[20']

So, you would like it if IL treated you like an alien as well.... NR Tags is not an issue in this State....

I believe you may think otherwise in regard to NR is you hunted public! NR tags are driving up lease prices as well...and who is going to these outfitters?? Not saying NR are bad, but to imply they do not impact hunting opportunities and access to land is not accurate.

I have to apply for tags every year in IL and I am not guaranteed a tag, yes it sucks, but residents should come first, JMO. Not sure how that is being treated like an alien.

 

[20']

So, you would like it if IL treated you like an alien as well.... NR Tags is not an issue in this State....

What is the issue in MO? MO is fine and a good hunting state, just not what we COULD be, notice I said could. Just a few tweaks could vault MO to #1 and these tweaks would not take away opportunity! I do think that the APR helped change some hunters mentality

 

[callaojoe]

I believe you may think otherwise in regard to NR is you hunted public! NR tags are driving up lease prices as well...and who is going to these outfitters?? Not saying NR are bad, but to imply they do not impact hunting opportunities and access to land is not accurate.

I have to apply for tags every year in IL and I am not guaranteed a tag, yes it sucks, but residents should come first, JMO. Not sure how that is being treated like an alien.

I do think MO needs to get control over public land better than they do, with more draw only hunts, etc. Most of them are complete chiiitshow come rifle season, and many are that way late archery now too.

 

[pmpeaks63]

Personally, I've never understood the logic behind dislike of someone hunting in your state, just because they don't live there. But, we see it in every state where hunting occurs, some more than others, IL for instance is a very much anti-NR state.

I hunt in several other states, and don't want them hating on me, although some do.... I just don't understand it, we're all Americans in my book, just because I live here or there really don't matter to me. I welcome NR hunters to MO, the same I welcome residents. Get out there, enjoy your time in the woods. If hunting is negatively impacting game numbers, that's where limits and season length come in to play. If there is public land getting too much pressure, put it into a draw quota format. But biiitching about someone because they live across some arbitrary line is silly in my book.

I also don't believe anyone should ever have to pay more than $100 for a freak'n whitetail tag. But hey, that's just me.

I hope you don't get the impression that I'm against NR's coming here to hunt. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I would like to see a quality approach to NR opportunity vs quantity. Right now with unlimited NR tags it's a free for all that is out of control. If you don't see that in the circles that you run in thats great for you but that doesn't mean its not a problem for others. I do like reciprocal tag costs. Seems fair to me.

 

[callaojoe]

I hope you don't get the impression that I'm against NR's coming here to hunt. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I would like to see a quality approach to NR opportunity vs quantity. Right now with unlimited NR tags it's a free for all that is out of control. If you don't see that in the circles that you run in thats great for you but that doesn't mean its not a problem for others. I do like reciprocal tag costs. Seems fair to me.

I hate that reciprical tag costs is even a consideration, but understand it when I pay $900 for a tag in MT or WY, or $500 for IL. The problem is those other states over charging for a deer tag. Not, that MO don't do Reciprocal. But, I am not against it really, just wish it wasn't needed.

I can understand restrictions on public land, but on my private land.... If my son wants to come back and hunt it, I don't think he should be restricted anymore than I am.

 

[pmpeaks63]

I hate that reciprical tag costs is even a consideration, but understand it when I pay $900 for a tag in MT or WY, or $500 for IL. The problem is those other states over charging for a deer tag. Not, that MO don't do Reciprocal. But, I am not against it really, just wish it wasn't needed.

I can understand restrictions on public land, but on my private land.... If my son wants to come back and hunt it, I don't think he should be restricted anymore than I am.

We agree.

 

[20']

I hate that reciprical tag costs is even a consideration, but understand it when I pay $900 for a tag in MT or WY, or $500 for IL. The problem is those other states over charging for a deer tag. Not, that MO don't do Reciprocal. But, I am not against it really, just wish it wasn't needed.

I can understand restrictions on public land, but on my private land.... If my son wants to come back and hunt it, I don't think he should be restricted anymore than I am.

I know most think MO is an amazing place to deer hunt and it is good for sure, but Missouri does not have the overall quality to charge what other states do, everyone NOT a MO firearms placement lover understands how that season placement negatively impacts the quality.

The MDC has already diddled the archery hunters, so OBR is not palatable at all with the same season structure.