Problems with MDC Seedlings

Discussion in 'Deer Management, Habitat & Conservation' started by brushpile, Jun 1, 2009.

  1. brushpile

    brushpile New Member

    Feb 23, 2008
    Springfield, MO
    Am I the only one, or did anyone else have problems with some of their MDC seedlings?

    I had White Pine with beautiful needles, and lousy roots. Probably half died.

    Beautyberry was a complete wash. Not a one grew!:mad2:

    Before I call and complain, I would like to hear from others. It's not about the money, it's about wasted time and effort.
     
  2. citybowhunter

    citybowhunter Senior Member

    Feb 13, 2009
    Independence Mo.
    i planted 25 pin oaks the first of may and i think i may have lost one. not the best looking root sytems i've ever seen though.
     

  3. citybowhunter

    citybowhunter Senior Member

    Feb 13, 2009
    Independence Mo.
    one last thought. i figure if any die this year i'll already have the hole dug for next year so it'll be easier than digging them from scratch. just sayin.
     
  4. pinwheel

    pinwheel Jenny's Lackey

    Jun 17, 2006
    middle of nowhere
    May not be the trees at all, may be the conditions into which they were planted. I'll qualify that with my own experience with MDC trees over the years. 4 years ago, I planted wild plums in an area that didn't drain well. They lived, but never thrived. Last spring, I dug them up & moved them to a better drained area. In that growing season, even though I shocked them by transplanting, they grew more than the previous years. 3 years ago, I planted 250 pecans. Not a single one survived. I don't believe it was the trees as much as it was the conditions in which I planted them into. All the other species of the 1800 trees are doing fine. Yeah, I've lost some, but my understanding is that it to be expected.
     
  5. pinwheel

    pinwheel Jenny's Lackey

    Jun 17, 2006
    middle of nowhere
    [rquote=1283173&tid=89768&author=citybowhunter]i planted 25 pin oaks the first of may and i think i may have lost one. not the best looking root sytems i've ever seen though. [/rquote]

    I plant pin oaks & false indigo because they're both nearly idiot proof. They're the easiest 2 trees to grow that I've planted.

    Before some smarty chimes in here, I didn't just call you an idiot, honest.:rof2::rof2:
     
  6. brushpile

    brushpile New Member

    Feb 23, 2008
    Springfield, MO
    I didn't mention that I was called by the MDC about two weeks ago, concerning White Pine Seedlings they sold that weren't doing well. It appears that lots of folks have already complained about the White Pine death rate. I threw in the Beautyberry, because they were a total bust.

    My Pin Oaks, False Indigo, and even my Deciduous Holly are all doing fine.:D
     
  7. citybowhunter

    citybowhunter Senior Member

    Feb 13, 2009
    Independence Mo.
    planted 250 pecan trees in conditions that weren't right. that sucks. just sayin.
     
  8. brushpile

    brushpile New Member

    Feb 23, 2008
    Springfield, MO
    It had little to do with conditions. I planted seedlings where they grew best last year, and I do know a thing or two. When the seedling looks lush and beautiful on top, and is short on roots, you have a problem. Good seedlings have good roots... the MDC's White Pines didn't.

    I don't have a clue with the Beautyberry, because I never saw any growth at all.
     
  9. UrbanHunter

    UrbanHunter Well-Known Member

    I've heard second hand that they've had some issues with phytophthera, a water-mold kinda fungus. Called "damping off" disease.
    It's why there have been no redcedar for a few years. Maybe getting into the pine beds? All the beds? Dunno.
    I DO know if you drive KC to Columbia, you'll see all those thousands of white pine on I-70 that MODOT planted. Did OK for a few years, are now dead. White pines have to have even moisture. Supposedly, if the roots go anaerobic for even 24 hours, they're dead. If they dry out, they're dead. Not many of us have the soils for white pine, even in the absence of a disease.
     
  10. pinwheel

    pinwheel Jenny's Lackey

    Jun 17, 2006
    middle of nowhere
    [rquote=1283375&tid=89768&author=UrbanHunter]I've heard second hand that they've had some issues with phytophthera, a water-mold kinda fungus. Called "damping off" disease.
    It's why there have been no redcedar for a few years. Maybe getting into the pine beds? All the beds? Dunno.
    I DO know if you drive KC to Columbia, you'll see all those thousands of white pine on I-70 that MODOT planted. Did OK for a few years, are now dead. White pines have to have even moisture. Supposedly, if the roots go anaerobic for even 24 hours, they're dead. If they dry out, they're dead. Not many of us have the soils for white pine, even in the absence of a disease.[/rquote]

    So, wouldn't that qualify for what I said about conditions? Brushpile, if I remember right, don't you have a hardpan, or rocky soil not very deep?
     
  11. brushpile

    brushpile New Member

    Feb 23, 2008
    Springfield, MO
    I agree with what UrbanHunter says about conditions, and Pinwheel, you remember correctly. The hardpan creates a real problem because it's dry as a bone all Summer, and soggy all Winter. The White Pines I planted there last year drowned, so I didn't plant them there this year. Mr_Hannibal tested my soil, and gave me soil maps showing that I have four types of soil. This year's plantings took soil type and moisture into considerstion, plus planting where White Pine survived last year.

    This year I gotta blame the nursery, which may not be the MDC. As I recall the MDC had to out source White Pine. The seedlings were heavily needled, and most of them had very little root.

    Beautyberry is something else. I have never seen a Beautyberry, and I sure can't grow them. They were a 100% failure, to include some I planted in the yard.
     
  12. UrbanHunter

    UrbanHunter Well-Known Member

    Yeah, PW, exactly what I meant. You can't put a white pine just anywhere.
    On the other hand, I've been having pretty poor "take" with my seedlings, too. Out of 25 persimmon, only 3 leafed out, as an example.
    I could understand not making it through the summer, but not leafing out?
    Oh, well, they sell them for about what shipping costs. May go back to using the gravel bed to get them through the first summer. Had about 100% take on all those.
     
  13. brushpile

    brushpile New Member

    Feb 23, 2008
    Springfield, MO
    UrbanHunter, read my response just above yours. I don't think it's conditions.
     
  14. UrbanHunter

    UrbanHunter Well-Known Member

    Yeah, you got that in as I was typing. I'll call my contacts, but I bet I hear the dreaded "phytophthera".
    Look at this. I should have used it again this year. I had great success the preceeding year, and it extends the season for planting to the whole summer. I didn't use drip irrigation, but rather used calcined clay at about 5%, and watered once/day.
    http://web.missouri.edu/~starbuckc/MGB/MGB_home.htm
     
  15. letemgrow

    letemgrow Well-Known Member

    I have great success with certain plants and poor success with others. I am sure some of it is due to planting location. They have to be put in their preferred sites to see them take off. Something else I have noticed though is tree survival is directly tied to the roots. The seedlings I have planted with superior root systems have really taken off.

    Personally when I get 25 seedlings in the bundle, I throw away any that do not make the cut root wise so I am not breaking my back planting something that is not going to grow.
     
  16. pinwheel

    pinwheel Jenny's Lackey

    Jun 17, 2006
    middle of nowhere
    Urban, tell me more about starting them in a gravel bed. Parker has promised me some giant burr oak acorns next year & I would like to try growing my own trees in a controlled setting before transplanting them into their final homes.

    Brushpile, I'm not trying to imply that there is not something wrong with the MDC white pines this year. Just trying to explore other possibilities as well.:cheers:
     
  17. TOBRYAN

    TOBRYAN Well-Known Member

    Dec 4, 2002
    Liberty, Mo
    I planted 330 this spring, half norway spruce and half pin oak. The holes were hand dug. I mulched and put baskets around everyone. I watered them initially.
    I have had 6 die.
     
  18. brushpile

    brushpile New Member

    Feb 23, 2008
    Springfield, MO
    I know what your saying Phil, I planted two pines to a hole if they had bad roots. I was thinking it improved the odds that one might grow, but usually they both died.

    I will say that my Lobby/Pitch Hybrid Pines from the MDC, are growing like crazy though.
     
  19. Redonthehead

    Redonthehead Active Member

    May 2, 2005
    Springfield
    The top ~8 to 18 inches of the 250 water tupelo trees I bought from MDC were dead - perhaps from freezing in their storage. They are sprouting out from below the dead line so it appears they may live, but certainly not as robust as they could have been.
     
  20. pinwheel

    pinwheel Jenny's Lackey

    Jun 17, 2006
    middle of nowhere
    [rquote=1283409&tid=89768&author=Redonthehead]The top ~8 to 18 inches of the 250 water tupelo trees I bought from MDC were dead - perhaps from freezing in their storage. They are sprouting out from below the dead line so it appears they may live, but certainly not as robust as they could have been. [/rquote]

    The PLC explained to me that if they resprout from the roots like this, they'll be just fine. I've had about 1/3 of my 1800 trees top die but are catching up just fine.