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Discussion Starter · #121 ·
One thing is for sure. It's not you. You deliever your ignorance in Buckets Fulls- Acutally because I stop trapping 60 days my turkey numbers have gone down.

If you talking about the NWTF Missouri Biologist - He a lap dog for MDC they pull his strings. The only thing I regret in 15 years of habitat management and trapping - Is I gave the National Wild Turkey Federation MONEY, TIME and Donations.

If I could get back 25 plus years of Money, Voulnteer, Sponsorship and Donations I would take all that money and put it into traps and other habitat work on my place. They are the biggest fraud conservation group in Missouri and are irrelevant to landowners in Missouri. They might had help back in the 70's but that organization is gone.

NWTF has nothing to offer landowners but a hand in your pocket.

You make a great communist only let the people with power decide your future.
You are like a jealous ex girlfriend...
 

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Discussion Starter · #122 ·
Oh I know he only has BLA BLA BLA to offer he has to call MDC or NWTF to get his opinion. Good Commie don't have independent thoughts.
You asked the questions on the live videos and got the same answers Id already given you...
 

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Discussion Starter · #123 ·
So, 2000 more hens breeding every Spring and compounded each year would help? Even if they only live 3-5 years? You cannot be that big of moron to think it wouldn’t help, pull you head out of Carmie’s azz and just admit your hatred for Henry has you acting like a fool (at best)!
No.
 

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Discussion Starter · #124 ·
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Everyone’s anecdotal stories of buddies who trap And have way more turkeys are quickly matched by others’s anecdotal stories of people with turkeys who don’t trap. I’m unsure what to believe really. The science seems to point to trapping in trapping season as having a minimal effect. This makes sense to me as bird nests are a limiting factor and it only take one preadator to find one nest. Until a new study comes out that is what I will go with. But unlike Hawks stance, if you want to do it, think it works, go for it. Have fun. Tell the whole internet it works if you want to. Just trap responsibly, use the resource, and be honest about your results.
There's good reason to not know for sure what to believe. I'm pretty confident I've looked at about as many studies on predator control as anyone (and not just turkeys), and I can say pretty confidently there is a lot of biased opinions on both sides. Unfortunately, a lot of people try to make it sound like supporters of predator control just want to claim predators are the whole problem, and in fact I don't know anyone who's claimed that. One of the reasons I really like to look at predator control studies of non game species, is because they don't generally have as much bias in them. For example, there are numerous studies of threatened turtle species, where nest predation was near 100%, and after trapping predators (primarily racoons), the hatch rate increased to as much as 90%. Now if reducing the racoon numbers all of a sudden can keep what's left from finding as many turtle nests, then it is illogical to think it's not going to reduce nest predation of many other species, including turkeys and quail.

The biggest problem with all the bias is the way it pits people against each other. Hawk literally doesn't pay attention to what people are saying, and I know this for certain, because the posts he makes on my comments frequently are totally out of line with what I'm saying. What I believe, and what Tall Timbers says in all their research and management recommendations, is that first and foremost you need to have good habitat if you expect to have good populations. However, even with good habitat, predator numbers will suppress turkey populations if they pass a certain threshold. At the same time, if your predator population isn't that high and your turkey population is low, then you've likely got a habitat problem that needs fixed. Also, no one says you can't have turkeys without predator control, and in fact if you're satisfied with the number of birds you have, why would you want to? However, if you've got good habitat but your turkey numbers are still lower than desired, depending on your individual situation, it's very possible you can increase your population.
 

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There's good reason to not know for sure what to believe. I'm pretty confident I've looked at about as many studies on predator control as anyone (and not just turkeys), and I can say pretty confidently there is a lot of biased opinions on both sides. Unfortunately, a lot of people try to make it sound like supporters of predator control just want to claim predators are the whole problem, and in fact I don't know anyone who's claimed that. One of the reasons I really like to look at predator control studies of non game species, is because they don't generally have as much bias in them. For example, there are numerous studies of threatened turtle species, where nest predation was near 100%, and after trapping predators (primarily racoons), the hatch rate increased to as much as 90%. Now if reducing the racoon numbers all of a sudden can keep what's left from finding as many turtle nests, then it is illogical to think it's not going to reduce nest predation of many other species, including turkeys and quail.

The biggest problem with all the bias is the way it pits people against each other. Hawk literally doesn't pay attention to what people are saying, and I know this for certain, because the posts he makes on my comments frequently are totally out of line with what I'm saying. What I believe, and what Tall Timbers says in all their research and management recommendations, is that first and foremost you need to have good habitat if you expect to have good populations. However, even with good habitat, predator numbers will suppress turkey populations if they pass a certain threshold. At the same time, if your predator population isn't that high and your turkey population is low, then you've likely got a habitat problem that needs fixed. Also, no one says you can't have turkeys without predator control, and in fact if you're satisfied with the number of birds you have, why would you want to? However, if you've got good habitat but your turkey numbers are still lower than desired, depending on your individual situation, it's very possible you can increase your population.
Bierman, just stop, heck we all should just stop as Hawk will never admit they 10x the predator s find more nest than 1 predator, hence why we can’t have a honest discussion! On step further, every and I mean EVERY DNR has habitat and increased predator numbers as the top two causes to the turkey decline, yet all we hear from Chammie Jr. Is that turkeys numbers are fine, golden mean... and Chammie Sr. And every other bio admits there is a huge problem to solved! Someone is lying, my money is on Chammie Jr/Hawk!
 

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Discussion Starter · #127 ·
There's good reason to not know for sure what to believe. I'm pretty confident I've looked at about as many studies on predator control as anyone (and not just turkeys), and I can say pretty confidently there is a lot of biased opinions on both sides. Unfortunately, a lot of people try to make it sound like supporters of predator control just want to claim predators are the whole problem, and in fact I don't know anyone who's claimed that. One of the reasons I really like to look at predator control studies of non game species, is because they don't generally have as much bias in them. For example, there are numerous studies of threatened turtle species, where nest predation was near 100%, and after trapping predators (primarily racoons), the hatch rate increased to as much as 90%. Now if reducing the racoon numbers all of a sudden can keep what's left from finding as many turtle nests, then it is illogical to think it's not going to reduce nest predation of many other species, including turkeys and quail.

The biggest problem with all the bias is the way it pits people against each other. Hawk literally doesn't pay attention to what people are saying, and I know this for certain, because the posts he makes on my comments frequently are totally out of line with what I'm saying. What I believe, and what Tall Timbers says in all their research and management recommendations, is that first and foremost you need to have good habitat if you expect to have good populations. However, even with good habitat, predator numbers will suppress turkey populations if they pass a certain threshold. At the same time, if your predator population isn't that high and your turkey population is low, then you've likely got a habitat problem that needs fixed. Also, no one says you can't have turkeys without predator control, and in fact if you're satisfied with the number of birds you have, why would you want to? However, if you've got good habitat but your turkey numbers are still lower than desired, depending on your individual situation, it's very possible you can increase your population.
Some of those turtles species didnt evolve with raccoons. In all of the studies they trapped DURING EGG LAYING AND NESTING. And turtles, like ducks, have a relatively small, specific nesting area/habitat. Its no wonder they would see success. If you found one specific turkey nest and trapped that spot heavily during nesting you could likely reduce raccoon predation significantly as well. Unfortunately that's not possible. Turtle studies have no real world relevance to turkeys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #128 ·
Bierman, just stop, heck we all should just stop as Hawk will never admit they 10x the predator s find more nest than 1 predator, hence why we can’t have a honest discussion! On step further, every and I mean EVERY DNR has habitat and increased predator numbers as the top two causes to the turkey decline, yet all we hear from Chammie Jr. Is that turkeys numbers are fine, golden mean... and Chammie Sr. And every other bio admits there is a huge problem to solved! Someone is lying, my money is on Chammie Jr/Hawk!
They dont.

Screenshot_20210224-071959_Gallery.jpg
 

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Bierman, just stop, heck we all should just stop as Hawk will never admit they 10x the predator s find more nest than 1 predator, hence why we can’t have a honest discussion! On step further, every and I mean EVERY DNR has habitat and increased predator numbers as the top two causes to the turkey decline, yet all we hear from Chammie Jr. Is that turkeys numbers are fine, golden mean... and Chammie Sr. And every other bio admits there is a huge problem to solved! Someone is lying, my money is on Chammie Jr/Hawk!
LoL
 

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ROFLMAO - Thank God they don't listen to the NWTF Biologist or Missouri Biologist - Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation - April 30, 2021

Rio Grande wild turkey populations have experienced declines in many parts of the subspecies’ range and are most evident in western Oklahoma.

ODWC biologists are recommending changes to spring hunting season dates and bag limits to help stem the decline and aid with population recovery.

A later opening date for spring hunting season benefits turkeys by allowing undisturbed breeding and egg laying during the crucial first two weeks in April.

A reduced statewide season bag will help maintain more breeding toms in the population.

We are seeking your comments and input on these proposed changes to wild turkey seasons in Oklahoma. The proposed changes would take effect for the 2021 fall wild turkey season and 2022 spring wild turkey season and, if approved, remain in effect for future years until further modified or revoked.
 

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I guess the Missouri Department of Conservation didn't write a big enough check to the NWTF this year. ROFLMAO

Nebraska - America's NO. 1 destination for turkey hunters.

Maybe Next Year NWTF will Market for the MDC = Missouri - America No. 15 destination for Turkey Hunters

219847
 

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The North American Wildlife Conservation Model - In cases where population REDUCTION* is the management goal, managers must implement *FEMALE***** harvest beyond the level at which the population can replace itself in the short-term. Missouri Wild Turkey Conservation Model is a Success since the HENS in MISSOURI cannot replace itself in the short or long term. ROFLMAO
 

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Deer management

Control the does, keep predators at bay, have good habitat.

Duck management

Hen restrictions, keep predators from nesting areas, have good habitat.

Turkey management

Who gives a flying F about females and predators. Habitat is the only way....

o_Oo_Oo_O
 

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I would like to Congratulate the NO. 1 – GAME AND FISH DEPARTMENT in the WORLD and the OUTSTANDING - Wild Turkey articles in APRIL AND MAY in the Missouri Conservationist.

Just got my MAY issue it is just loaded, like APRIL issue was, with Missouri ongoing research on the Wild Turkey along the Iowa Border, the status of the Missouri Wild Turkey and what the future holds, the Management of the Wild Turkey, the helpful hints for first time youth turkey hunters in Missouri and the promoting the hunting of Wild Turkeys in Missouri.

Makes me proud that Missouri is still the Mecca for hunting Wild Turkeys as past April and May issue have acknowledged, just as Missouri Wild Turkey Season coming to an end bringing 10 million dollars to the Missouri economy in these hard times.

BY the way TWO – MISSOURI DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION BIOLOGIST – Forgot to mention that Armadillos are destroying Turkey Nest. – Be glad to provide photo and evidence – Armadillo are now considered NATIVE and no hunting or trapping season – Bureaucrat Missouri Biologist are the most invasive and destructive species in Missouri – What happen to all the Wildlife Biologist?

No they are not looking for the eggs, but he bugs under the nest and they bulldoze the eggs and if they bust them they will lick up the yokes. Shear numbers make then a INVASIVE SPECIES to all ground nesting birds in Missouri.

219855
219856
 

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Dont bring up armadillos . I did and was called a fool.I dont have the picture evidence but the turkey woods look like what they used to with turkey scratching except its armadillos.

Or eagles !

Both are someting bwe didnt have 20 years ago. Have seen an eagle take a small hen.
 

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Dont bring up armadillos . I did and was called a fool.I dont have the picture evidence but the turkey woods look like what they used to with turkey scratching except its armadillos.

Or eagles !

Both are someting bwe didnt have 20 years ago. Have seen an eagle take a small hen.
The only fools are the educated inmates running the asylum – I take common sense over anyone in Jefferson City or the Biggers fools that regurgitate their vomit.
 
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Discussion Starter · #138 ·
I think hawk needs to go talk to the duck guys, they will straighten him out....

"Dead hens don't lay eggs"
True, but they have found that hunter harvest play virtually no roll in hen mortality.
 

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Discussion Starter · #139 ·
Deer management

Control the does, have good habitat.

Duck management

Have good habitat.

Turkey management


Habitat. Dont start hunting season too early.
Dont shoot many females in spring.
FIFY
 

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Discussion Starter · #140 ·
Armadillos will eat a nest, they just are a very very very small factor in nest predation. Similar to mice or squirrels. But then again, you can find a picture of about anything in the woods eating a turkey nest.
 
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