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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had the priveledge of meeting Dr. Grant Woods and Bill Winke recently and I brought up the concern of some of the Missouri Hunters and our liberal seasons and liberal harvest regulations.
The first thing brought up was the fact that the 4 point antler restrictions is really not beneficial, especially for trophy potential. Some bucks with trophy potential grow 7-10 points after their first year so quite a few get shot and never get to a stage where they can efficiently spread their genes. I personally would rather be able to harvest a mature 140" 6 pointer than a basket rack 2 year old 8. Either way, the MDC is trying to both control and manage the population for quality and quantity. The problem is with the mature 6 pointers that are running around. I saw a 140+ 6 running around that was at least 5 1/2 and have heard of quite a few more. That deer will continue to spread its 6pt genes into the herd and that is not good when you have a 4 point antler restriction. Many states don't use a 4 point rule because thye realize those deer need to be culled out of the herd or your going to have alot of sub-trophy class deer with little or no trophy potential.
This is the part that alot of folks wont like. There is talk of adjusting the Missouri Deer seasons to one similar to Kansas.
You either get to pick gun season or bow season and you are limited to 1 buck for the type of weapon used(except for an additional buck in Management hunts) and up to 4 does depending on the county and deer numbers in that county. Most counties would see a 2 deer max(1 any deer and 1 antlerless with an antlerless season for a possible additional deer). They may resort to dividing the state into regions like Iowa and Kansas has in place. Whether this will happen or not remains to be seen but I have a legit source that told me talks will begin in January/February to ravamp the entire deer management project in Missouri and the seasons may very well be in place for 2010.
Dr Woods said he felt that the population control factor has in fact depleted the resource to an extent thatits time to readjust. He said he was surprised they didn't do it sooner and the fact that the MDC moved antlerless season to continue right after gun season didn't help.
Missouri is a big state but we also have alot of hunters per square mile. It makes sense that at some point, we have to go back to stricter seasons and harvest regulations to ensure good hunting opportunities for the future.
I personally liked to have an opportunity at more than one buck and having my season of choice but I have hunted in Iowa and Kansas and I saw trophy deer on a regular basis so it works to some extent. I saw the regulations in northeast Kansas go from being able to harvest 4 does and a buck to 1 doe and one buck and it was needed. The doe numbers haven't gotten to where they need to be yet because the resource was depleted with a 4 doe regulation.
Its a tough one but I guess we will see what happens.
 

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Yep we will see, I have had the best hunting ever over the last 3 years. So I can not really complain about what the MDC is doing.
 

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First off, welcome to MWT!!!

Second, I'm gonna pop some popcorn, here we go again...lol!!!!!!:toilet::cheers::wave:
 

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MWWT, that is the best post I have read on here in a long time! I sure hope it changes, the past 3 seasons have been horrible in NE MO
 

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Welcome to MWT!!!

If this does start taking grip they better batten down the hatches in Jeff City. :rof2:

Honestly, I don't even like the first paragraph alluding to the fact that MO is being pushed to manage deer for trophy pontential rather than herd balance. :cheers:
 

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[rquote=1505702&tid=105028&author=FiremanBrad]First off, welcome to MWT!!!

Second, I'm gonna pop some popcorn, here we go again...lol!!!!!!:toilet::cheers::wave:[/rquote]

Make mine with extry butter:cheers:
I've seen mnore trophy bucks in the last 4 years than I have seen the previous 20 years. Course my definition of trophy is different than other people's definition. Just thinking out loud here; we should worry more about what we CAN control and let MDC worry about what THEY (obviously) can control.
 

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so let me get this right, other people to include Dr. Grant Woods agrees with what I got balsted for a couple week ago, that being that is was ridiculous having a 12 day antlerless season begin the day after firearms season ended........hmmmn
 

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[rquote=1505823&tid=105028&author=Remington 338]I hope this is the real deal and not another rumor going around. We need to do something with our seasons.[/rquote]

I have a feeling it is all talk. MDC just spent a ton of time having multiple public meetings throughout the state about our deer seasons and some proposed changes. There is no way MDC is going to make any big changes to next years seasons, and if there are going to be any big changes, I would expected there to be at least 3 years before they implement them.

Really the only thing I could even see them considering changing in the near future is the insanely long antlerless season we have.

There's my :02:

There, I took the bait...now lets see this snowball :D

[Edited on 12-10-2009 by BioBuck]
 

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It is going to be hard to regulate the deer herd for trophy deer and a balanced, healthy deer herd.:02:

I do agree something needs to change. I just hope MDC has enough flexibility to achieve a greater "good" with everyone in mind. A state as diverse as MO, we should all be able to have :cheers: and drink it too!

I don't think MO fits the role for a blanket coverage type regulation book. There are 8 different regions and all should be regulated as such. JMO
 

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good post,except for the 6 point deal, all of a sudden since we have a 4 point restiction every one sees 140 inch 6 pointers, fact is they are the exception not the norm.
 

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[rquote=1505836&tid=105028&author=ALMOST NORMAL]It is going to be hard to regulate the deer herd for trophy deer and a balanced, healthy deer herd.:02:

I do agree something needs to change. I just hope MDC has enough flexibility to achieve a greater "good" with everyone in mind. A state as diverse as MO, we should all be able to have :cheers: and drink it too!

I don't think MO fits the role for a blanket coverage type regulation book. There are 8 different regions and all should be regulated as such. JMO[/rquote]

I agree, MDC will never put growing trophy bucks ahead of herd management. Their number one priority is to keep the deer numbers at a reasonable level. At where we are today with Missouri's whitetail herd, I think all changes in hunting seasons and limits are going to be reflected by doe management and overall desired deer numbers. I can't see MDC ever putting any management emphasis on trying to control buck genetics. Those types of management practices are restricted to the 20,000 acre ranges of Texas.

:cheers:
 

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[rquote=1505839&tid=105028&author=Bowhunter4life]good post,except for the 6 point deal, all of a sudden since we have a 4 point restiction every one sees 140 inch 6 pointers, fact is they are the exception not the norm.[/rquote]

I was thinking that myself...what in the world does a 140+ inch 6 point even look like? That has to be close to a world record 6 point and they surely aren't going to be very common animals to say the least.

You have to remember that mommy doe is contributing to a bucks antler characteristics as well. You can kill "cull" bucks all day long and still have bucks with undesirable antler characteristics showing up in the population because mom provided that genetic info.

As stated on MWT multiple times, unless you are in a high fence operation or have tens of thousands of acres, trying to control or influence the genetic make up of a deer herd is a lost cause. No educated wildlife biologist for the state would ever dream of suggesting statewide management practices thats only purpose is to influence the genetics of the herd.

:cheers:
 

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[rquote=1505839&tid=105028&author=Bowhunter4life]good post,except for the 6 point deal, all of a sudden since we have a 4 point restiction every one sees 140 inch 6 pointers, fact is they are the exception not the norm.[/rquote]

They are everywhere, problem is the hunter was so fixated on the size that he forgot to count what was on the other side. :whistle:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I do understand that after reading some other topics about this, I'm bringing up old hat that some don't want to hear about or don't care to hear about. There are some counties that have more than enough deer per square mile to justify higher harvest numbers. There are also some that have seen a steady decline in numbers that doesn't have to do with weather or crops etc...The QDM for trophy class bucks will always be a debate amongst hunters. I respect the hunters that are just going out to fill the freezer. I do the same and hope to fill my freezer each season but I also love hunting trophy whitetails. Its a matter of personal opinion and what someone enjoys vs what someone else might. The 6 point issue was brought up because that is sometimes what happens when you are not allowed to cull inferior bucks. Either way, The MDC is doing their best to keep the Missouri deer population in check. This issue is monitored on a regular basis and there will come a time for every state that is as liberal as Missouri where the Reg's will need to be changed.
I have seen plenty of big bucks here in Missouri where I hunt and I know part of it is because of management on my part and neighboring farms. I have a friend that lives in Wisconsin and the have an outside the ears rule for bucks. If its not outside the ears, let it walk. There are quite a few fist fights,literally, between family members since someone always ends up shooting something that isn't outside the ears. Anyways, they have been doing this for 5 years now and 5 out of the 6 guys shot 160+ class deer this year. Even 3 or 4 years ago, you couldn't buy a 120 inch deer, even it wasn't outside his ears. We pass 3 year olds on my farm and its paying off. But like I said, to each their own. Not everyones agrees or cares about trophy bucks or the potential to grow them. Im lucky enough to have folks around my property that love and respect deer hunting and we all work together to manage the land and deer. The farmer to my north has never shot a good buck and this year, he shot a 163 with a droptine. I have never seen a guy so excited and he is 63 and has hunted a long time. He said before that they didn't have the quality of deer that he is seeing now and he wasn't buying the whole QDM thing until he saw proof after a few years of trying it out. Now he is sold on it. We all take our share of does and we respect the regulations of the MDC and its ended up being better hunting for us. The point is, that was on a local level. Iowa and Kansas as well as Wisconsin, Illinois and Nebraska have done it on a state level. It works. Your still going to have plenty of folks that poach or don't tag and telecheck deer but that is going to happen regardless of what the regulations are.
I think whatever the MDC decides will be fair and in the best interest of the deer herd in Missouri.

[Edited on 12-10-2009 by MidwestWhitetails]
 
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