No mans land(high lung)

Discussion in '2011 Whitetail General' started by blong, Nov 9, 2010.

  1. blong

    blong Senior Member

    784
    Nov 26, 2008
    Watched a huge 8 jump a fence a 40 across from me and gave him the buck roar. He stopped looked my way and here he comes. I got behind a cedar and knocked my arrow, he closed to 25 yds and when he got broadside I drew. When I aimed at him , all 3 pins were in the lung area(yalls deer are HUGE) I let it fly and it buried up to the wrap on the shaft in the high lung just under spine. He bounced all the way across the field and went in a small woodlot. 13 hours later I decided to look for him, we found the arrow 100 yds from the shot with 13 to 14" penetration. Very little blood. No deer in small woodlot and the next woodlot was not on our property so we didn't look. When I was replacing the luminock the next day, 13" of gelled blood rolled out of the shaft, dead deer I thought! The T3 has grooves that will allow blood to run into the insert and thru the threads. Jumped up and went to the farmerr with the big woodlot and he said go look. After hours of searching, no deer. Two mornings later he was in the same field pushing does and fending off small bucks. I rattled him to the same corner and he winded me at 100 yds and ran back across the field and crossed the fence exactly where he had 2 days earlier. What could I have hit to get that much blood in my arrow and not kill him?
     
  2. Bigshooter

    Bigshooter Senior Member

    310
    Sep 19, 2007
    Moscow Mills
    There is no such thing as "no mans land" or the "void" above the lung and below the spine. You hit him through the backstraps and obviously didn't hurt anything. Aim Lower next time.
     

  3. kxpete627

    kxpete627 New Member

    801
    Oct 19, 2009
    Centralia, MO
    I did the same thing about a week ago. Same deal, seen him two days later doggin a doe.
     
  4. blong

    blong Senior Member

    784
    Nov 26, 2008
    [rquote=1887180&tid=131473&author=Bigshooter]There is no such thing as "no mans land" or the "void" above the lung and below the spine. You hit him through the backstraps and obviously didn't hurt anything. Aim Lower next time.[/rquote]Arent the backstraps on the spine at the top of the back? How could I get that much penetration without breaking his spine? It was at least 7" below the top of his back.
     
  5. citori

    citori New Member

    271
    Nov 3, 2005
    SEMO
    @ the top 1/3 (6-8" from hair line down)of the deer is NOTHING but backstrap! The further toward the front of the ribcage you go the further down the lungs are. In the front of the ribcage you can hit a deer almost ALMOST half way down and it is above the spine! I hit the biggest deer of my life two weeks ago there.

    If you get under the spine that is a DEAD DEER! The aorta is right under spine, and the lungs go up to the spine. You cannot go between spine and lungs without killing the deer!

    I have had this discussion with one of my hunting buddies that is WELL qualified in this. He has his undergrad in wildlife biology. Is a veternarian. He also ran a hunting lodge in Alabama for 5 years and tracked and cleaned about 125 deer a year there, plus all the deer he has killed and helped others with.

    You had a textbook ABOVE the spine hit.
    Which is:
    1. about half arrow penatration
    2. decent bright red blood(muscle blood) for @ 150-200 yards
    3. "hit it slightly high"

    He will live, as you have seen. Hope you get another chance at him.

    It hurt you more than it hurt him....I have been there and done the same thing. Good luck on him.

    thanks
    citori
     
  6. citori

    citori New Member

    271
    Nov 3, 2005
    SEMO
    As far as blood goes....just think of what It would look like if you had a nose bleed in the woods that you had a hard time stoppin....it didnt kill ya but it LOOKS like a LOT of blood.

    He is fine as you have seen. Sounds like I would go try to hang a stand where he crossed fence when you shot him, and where he crossed in the same spot when he winded ya. That is if it is where you can hunt.

    thanks
    citori
     
  7. blong

    blong Senior Member

    784
    Nov 26, 2008
    I would love to but I am now 900 miles from there. He will not make it thru rifle season because they are in that field almost every morning checking does coming back from the beans and corn. I would give a alot to be sitting by that corner post Saturday morning with the ole 30-06. Thanks for the info on the anatomy.
     
  8. a_ridgway

    a_ridgway New Member

    May 3, 2010
    That anatomy might have a blemish to. A guy that I really dislike actually came to work last year saying how he had shot a deer below the spine and above the lungs. We all said that whatever cause he is a legend at wounding deer every year. The next he pull his camera and brought a picture in of a buck with a lovely hole 7 in below the top of the back and right behind the shoulder. So I fully believe it can be done. My guess is either you shot a iron buck or maybe you can be higher off the ground?
     
  9. PoisonSnake

    PoisonSnake Active Member

    Dec 16, 2004
    Australia
    [rquote=1887180&tid=131473&author=Bigshooter]There is no such thing as "no mans land" or the "void" above the lung and below the spine. You hit him through the backstraps and obviously didn't hurt anything. Aim Lower next time.[/rquote]

    There is an excellent thread regarding this topic over on Archery Talk right now. I too feel this "void" to be a moot point. But, it is very interesting getting the perspective of physicians and veterinarians on the matter regarding arrow and gun shot wounds to the chest.
     
  10. Bigshooter

    Bigshooter Senior Member

    310
    Sep 19, 2007
    Moscow Mills
    Bowsite had a great thread on it a year or two ago as well. Lots to be learned and very interesting. So many times I have dissected the deer I have shot just to see what damage was done to what and there have been times I would have swore that I hit here or there and when I skinned and looked at exactly where it DID hit I was wrong about where I thought I hit.
     
  11. angus

    angus Member

    922
    Oct 17, 2005
    Salem
    I cant add anything that hasnt already been said, here,, No void between the spine and lungs, the spine is actually much lower than lots of people think in the shoulder area. If you look at an anatomy pic, it shows the spine dipping lower at the shoulders. You can hit pretty low and still be above the spine, nothing but loins up there.
     
  12. sambo3006

    sambo3006 Active Member

    Nov 23, 2007
    Christian County
  13. blong

    blong Senior Member

    784
    Nov 26, 2008
    Did any of you see moultrie's show last night?. A hunter shot a buck exactly where I hit the big one in Mo. last year and he was pumped. He was going on how he knew the deer was down while I was thinking "no way". The deer comes back out in the beans to far to shoot but you could plainly see the hole above the lungs and under the spine.
     
  14. PoisonSnake

    PoisonSnake Active Member

    Dec 16, 2004
    Australia
    I did see it. I believe it was a high lung hit. But, what amazed me was the deer went back to feeding like nothing had ever happened.

    Oh, and another thing..., he went nuts on that high hit. The guy was over the top anyway with his antics. But, he was calling his buddies and all telling them to bring the truck. The whole time I was thinking the shot was a bit high and that he was putting the cart before the horse. Also, when the deer walked out over across the field, my first thought was that there was no way they were the same buck. The second one looked like a monster to me. Then, they showed footage of the deer walking by with the hole in it and bleeding.
     
  15. bowhuntKS

    bowhuntKS King of the White Ninjas

    Sep 11, 2006
    KS
    [rquote=2153563&tid=131473&author=PoisonSnake]I did see it. I believe it was a high lung hit. But, what amazed me was the deer went back to feeding like nothing had ever happened.

    Oh, and another thing..., he went nuts on that high hit. The guy was over the top anyway with his antics. But, he was calling his buddies and all telling them to bring the truck. The whole time I was thinking the shot was a bit high and that he was putting the cart before the horse. Also, when the deer walked out over across the field, my first thought was that there was no way they were the same buck. The second one looked like a monster to me. Then, they showed footage of the deer walking by with the hole in it and bleeding.[/rquote]

    Didn't see the show...however am I to assume then from both of your responses that the deer was never recovered?
     
  16. PoisonSnake

    PoisonSnake Active Member

    Dec 16, 2004
    Australia
    Never recovered. From the looks of the footage, he should have taken a second shot. I assume they must have really zoomed in.
     
  17. bowhuntKS

    bowhuntKS King of the White Ninjas

    Sep 11, 2006
    KS
    [rquote=2153593&tid=131473&author=PoisonSnake]Never recovered. From the looks of the footage, he should have taken a second shot. I assume they must have really zoomed in.[/rquote]

    Interesting...wish I'd have seen it.
     
  18. 20 feet high

    20 feet high CROSSBOW HATER!

    Feb 19, 2009
    [rquote=1887240&tid=131473&author=citori]@ the top 1/3 (6-8" from hair line down)of the deer is NOTHING but backstrap! The further toward the front of the ribcage you go the further down the lungs are. In the front of the ribcage you can hit a deer almost ALMOST half way down and it is above the spine! I hit the biggest deer of my life two weeks ago there.

    If you get under the spine that is a DEAD DEER! The aorta is right under spine, and the lungs go up to the spine. You cannot go between spine and lungs without killing the deer!

    I have had this discussion with one of my hunting buddies that is WELL qualified in this. He has his undergrad in wildlife biology. Is a veternarian. He also ran a hunting lodge in Alabama for 5 years and tracked and cleaned about 125 deer a year there, plus all the deer he has killed and helped others with.

    You had a textbook ABOVE the spine hit.
    Which is:
    1. about half arrow penatration
    2. decent bright red blood(muscle blood) for @ 150-200 yards
    3. "hit it slightly high"

    He will live, as you have seen. Hope you get another chance at him.

    It hurt you more than it hurt him....I have been there and done the same thing. Good luck on him.

    thanks
    citori[/rquote]

    I have cleaned a bunch of deer and have never seen a backstrap 6-8" tall. I doubt Blong hit it in the backstrap, if he did it meant he shot high and the deer spun at the release, then the arrow would have remained in the strap.....I have killed 4 bucks with arrows in there straps....you probably hit it forward in the shoulder area and that musc;e blood rolls like crazy for the first few minutes then that's it in my experience (unfortunately).
     
  19. venatic

    venatic ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    I saw that show last night. You could see where the arrow hit, but no blood coming out. I don't know what happened to the arrow.
     
  20. 20 feet high

    20 feet high CROSSBOW HATER!

    Feb 19, 2009
    "they" also say the void is a myth, but too many guy have proved there is a void somewhere in there. Too many deer live after being shot forward and high.