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Bottom line for me... 5 years into crossbow inclusion....

There has been nothing in the harvest numbers that has me concerned about the health of MO's deer herd as a result of crossbow inclusion.

All the Dread and Fear is unfounded at this point. You don't have to like them, but if you think they are decimating the deer herd, you are incorrect.
not sure anyone has ever said they decimate the population, but they have 100% increased buck harvest every year.....my argument all along (and was met with blatant lies and foolish resistance) was that crossbow present a DISTINCT advantage over archery equipment! At least now some 5-6 years later a few of the liars are changing their tunes....and being somewhat truthful, but some what is still not honest!
 

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These move the season folks dont want to make that sacrifice. Heck, they even want their 3rd tag back, how in the world will you get them down to 1 tag. LOL
please explain how OBR without a season placement change helps very much? And please keep in mind the OBR coupled with a later season would produce a large number of more TOP end bucks....
 

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please explain how OBR without a season placement change helps very much? And please keep in mind the OBR coupled with a later season would produce a large number of more TOP end bucks....
It would kill less bucks.

Tada
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
not sure anyone has ever said they decimate the population, but they have 100% increased buck harvest every year.....my argument all along (and was met with blatant lies and foolish resistance) was that crossbow present a DISTINCT advantage over archery equipment! At least now some 5-6 years later a few of the liars are changing their tunes....and being somewhat truthful, but some what is still not honest!
100% incereased buck harvest, what does that even mean. If one more buck gets killed, I guess ya they increased the harvesst.....

But, let me, let you in on a little secret Bob.... Harvest #'s for bucks change every year. Sometimes they go up, sometimes they go down. This year, it went down for archery, 2000 less than last year. A bigger factor, is overall state deer population. If you are telling me that 5 years into xbows, you are now seeing way fewer mature deer than you were before, and you think that's because of xbows.... you are thick in the head... :D

Seems to me, harvest numbers have pretty much been held in check, as it relates to the overall population of deer. So, even if some years more archery bucks are getting killed, it seems the population of deer in the state is able to handle that minor increase.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
It would kill less bucks.

Tada
Killing less bucks is bad for spread of CWD. Not really a goal right now I would think.
 

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100% incereased buck harvest, what does that even mean. If one more buck gets killed, I guess ya they increased the harvesst.....

But, let me, let you in on a little secret Bob.... Harvest #'s for bucks change every year. Sometimes they go up, sometimes they go down. This year, it went down for archery, 2000 less than last year. A bigger factor, is overall state deer population. If you are telling me that 5 years into xbows, you are now seeing way fewer mature deer than you were before, and you think that's because of xbows.... you are thick in the head... :D

Seems to me, harvest numbers have pretty much been held in check, as it relates to the overall population of deer. So, even if some years more archery bucks are getting killed, it seems the population of deer in the state is able to handle that minor increase.
yes archery buck harvest was down, but that is easily explainable by the firearms start date. I am not looking to eliminate hunting opportunities like the MDC and those who want OBR. The MDC already took opportunities away from guys that killed two bucks! Now, some are suggesting OBR, that really takes the hunting opportunities away and at ZERO cost to the firearms hunter! I merely suggest if you are going to jam up an archery hunters rear at least spit on and move the season back so there is a benefit to BOTH archery and firearms hunters (more top end bucks surviving and on the landscape to hunt)!
 

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I know the archery hunting pressure has skyrocketed on public land around me the last few years. Not sure if it crossbow related or not?
 
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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
I know the archery hunting pressure has skyrocketed on public land around me the last few years. Not sure if it crossbow related or not?
I think it's Non-Resi related as much as anything else. Missouri has become the "goto" state for Non-Resi archery hunting.

With IL, IA, KS all surrounding MO, and MO having OTC Tags.... I stands to reason if you either don't draw or can't afford the tag to those other three states, come to MO where tags are easy to get, and relatively cheap, and there are millions of acres of public ground with pretty good deer hunting on them.

I suspect this will keep getting worse, until MDC decides to stem the flow of Non-Resi's......
 
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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
CWD, that's rich! Poor WI deer herd is so decimated from CWD....i mean they have zero hunters these days...
It might be "rich", but it's influencing decision making when it comes to regs that impact deer harvest. You don't have to agree with it, but that's what is happening.
 

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I think it's Non-Resi related as much as anything else. Missouri has become the "goto" state for Non-Resi archery hunting.

With IL, IA, KS all surrounding MO, and MO having OTC Tags.... I stands to reason if you either don't draw or can't afford the tag to those other three states, come to MO where tags are easy to get, and relatively cheap, and there are millions of acres of public ground with pretty good deer hunting on them.

I suspect this will keep getting worse, until MDC decides to stem the flow of Non-Resi's......
It is likely the non resi's knew about the OTC tags prior to xgun inclusion. Now it could be non-res xgun hunters applying more pressure during archery.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
It is likely the non resi's knew about the OTC tags prior to xgun inclusion. Now it could be non-res xgun hunters applying more pressure during archery.
You are welcome to blame it all on xbows, as that is what you want to blame it on.

I see a lot of OOS trucks coming into MO during archery season, I just think word is really starting to get out there on how much MO has to offer Non-Resi Archers.

Are they coming here because of xbows, I rek'n some of them are. But, most are coming because compared to Southern States..... There are good opportunities to pursue big buck on public ground in MO with cheap OTC tags. If I lived in Arkansas for instance. I guarantee you I would spend at least a week in MO during first 10 days of November pursuing deer on places like Mussel Fork, Hidden Hollow, etc.... Why not, for about $1000 you can do one heck of an OOS hunt here in MO. I see a LOT of IL Plates too, IL may be the land of giants, but public ground ain't so easy to come by.
 

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You are welcome to blame it all on xbows, as that is what you want to blame it on.

I see a lot of OOS trucks coming into MO during archery season, I just think word is really starting to get out there on how much MO has to offer Non-Resi Archers.

Are they coming here because of xbows, I rek'n some of them are. But, most are coming because compared to Southern States..... There are good opportunities to pursue big buck on public ground in MO with cheap OTC tags. If I lived in Arkansas for instance. I guarantee you I would spend at least a week in MO during first 10 days of November pursuing deer on places like Mussel Fork, Hidden Hollow, etc.... Why not, for about $1000 you can do one heck of an OOS hunt here in MO. I see a LOT of IL Plates too, IL may be the land of giants, but public ground ain't so easy to come by.
The non resi's have been coming a long time before the xbow inclusion and stacking into the MO public ground (at least from what my Public Land hunting buddies have shared), and the NR know they can kill that 120" elusive trophy in MO that evades them in the South. Perhaps it is just getting even more popular, but perhaps the xbow has convinced others to join they buddies. I feel for the public hunters for sure, not sure there is a course of action to help them, at least one the MDC is willing to implement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
All one has to do, is look at a map to see why we are getting more and more non-resi pressure, not just on public land but in the form of leases, and NR land owners.

We are surrounded by the states touted by TV hunters as the best in the country. Many of those states have OBR, so once they fill their home state buck tag, just hop in a truck, go online or to wal mart, buy at tag and they get to keep buck hunting. Othere states like Arky, MS, TN, AL, KY...... Well, their rut aint til Dec/Jan so they are coming up here in droves to rut hunt with a bow or rifle in early Nov........ I am not Sure MDC publishes NR tag purchases, tag success. But if they do it'd be real interesting to chart what's been going on in the non-resi space. I suspect there has been a steady increase going back before xbow inclusion, be curious to know if it spiked post xblow inclusion, or just continued to increase at same pace. MDC has data on kills, NONResi Archery kills that can be broken down by vertical vs xbow, I just don't know they make it readily available.....

And yes, for many archery hunters a 120" archery kill is still a pretty nice archery kill, only 5" below P&Y.
 

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All one has to do, is look at a map to see why we are getting more and more non-resi pressure, not just on public land but in the form of leases, and NR land owners.

We are surrounded by the states touted by TV hunters as the best in the country. Many of those states have OBR, so once they fill their home state buck tag, just hop in a truck, go online or to wal mart, buy at tag and they get to keep buck hunting. Othere states like Arky, MS, TN, AL, KY...... Well, their rut aint til Dec/Jan so they are coming up here in droves to rut hunt with a bow or rifle in early Nov........ I am not Sure MDC publishes NR tag purchases, tag success. But if they do it'd be real interesting to chart what's been going on in the non-resi space. I suspect there has been a steady increase going back before xbow inclusion, be curious to know if it spiked post xblow inclusion, or just continued to increase at same pace. MDC has data on kills, NONResi Archery kills that can be broken down by vertical vs xbow, I just don't know they make it readily available.....

And yes, for many archery hunters a 120" archery kill is still a pretty nice archery kill, only 5" below P&Y.
Which of those states is OBR? KY technically borders MO, yes. But, KS is the only OBR state that truly border us!
Iagree the MDC has all this info, and I think they downplay the NR effect.
 

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PS I have nothing against NR hunters, howveer I would like to see some public land that is resident only and the draw hunts not available to NR unless enough residents do not apply. Seems like common sense to me.

NR IL firearms tags are not available to NR at the expense of residents getting turned away.
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
I don't remember which of the states have OBR, I was thinkin IA was. OH, KY, IN I think are, and an easy drive to MO. MN, they might be.

Just look at the Map, then throw in cheap OTC tags, and MO is going to be a target destination for a lot of deer hunters looking to get in some prime time archery hunting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
For the record, I am not anti OOS hunter, they are welcome to our state, as I hope I would be in theirs.

I am merely pointing out how/why MO became such an attractive target for NR hunters.

Not to mention, a complete atlas of MDC managed properties to choose from. Where do you find that for IL, IA, KS, and other places.

MO is the easy button for non-resi hunts. Even without an xbow in hand. :D
 
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I don't remember which of the states have OBR, I was thinkin IA was. OH, KY, IN I think are, and an easy drive to MO. MN, they might be.

Just look at the Map, then throw in cheap OTC tags, and MO is going to be a target destination for a lot of deer hunters looking to get in some prime time archery hunting.
Not Iowa, but the others yes and other than KY all have late firearms (IL a 3 day the 2nd weekend of MO).

Agree 100% with OTR tags and the price of them make MO a no-brainer destination. Missouri is a very good state to hunt deer & turkey, ESPECIASLLY when compared to the southern states. I would rather gig the NR with more costs (since we have the tax monies), but charge a reciprocal fees of what their state charges, if it is more than we currently charge the NR.
 
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