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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
NOS made in USA CVA Mountain rifle in 45cal. PR405 so its not a kit rifle. He was thrilled to find one NIB. All his current sidelocks are fast twist conical shooters and he wanted a PRB rifle with some history behind it. I tried to talk him into one of the old Brownings but the price was much higher.





 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The site changed owners and to Xenforo software. The URL now starts with https instead of http. It is up right now but Taptalk might still be having problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That baby was made in the mid/late 70s. Its not one of the first ones but it is nicer than the last years they made them. I think he paid around $450 for it. Really nice sidelock for that kinda cash. A new Traditions is about that much and they are 1-48. This one is a 1-66 and a nicer rifle too.

Ive seen some prettier ones but not for no $450.
 

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They are/were nice rifles for the money. I bought one in a kit when they first came out so it was an early one. I thought it was a good rifle. Mine was certainly accurate enough to win a few matches and kill a few deer. My oldest son has it now.

I always heard the later ones weren't as good as the early ones. Any truth to that?

Those John Browning Hawkens were nice rifles...and mimicked the Hawken pretty good, if a little light, when compared to the originals. But, most reproductions are made lighter than the real thing....which probably isn't a bad thing if you've ever handled a real Hawken or a dimensionally correct replica.

Ahhh..cross posted. I see you heard the same thing I have.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Rumor is, the first couple hundred had Douglas barrels. Next round had imported blanks but were rifled here. Last years had imported rifled blanks. The last ones do not have Made In USA on the barrel and the ramrod thimbles are round not hex shaped. Patch box is also different. 3 screw on old and then 2 screw.

Its rumored the Brownings were actually made in Utah. The barrels were GRRW from my understanding. The one i found for him ended up selling for $858 plus shipping NIB

He gave $425 plus shipping for the CVA
https://www.gunsamerica.com/9952504...al-cap-lock-black-powder-NEW-PR405-not-TC.htm

The Browning he passed up
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/795193900
 

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I have one of those mountain rifles . Killed several deer and my first bull elk with it. Have not shot it in several years . A nib would be cool!
 

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Question for you old timers.....I vaguely remember years ago possibly in the mid to late 70's there was a shop at Silver Dollar City in Branson that made flintlock rifles. You could order one or buy one that was ready to go. This was way before I had any interest in black powder shooting. I have no memory of the name brand if there was one.

Anyone remember this shop?


Edit:
Did some searching on my own and found that the shop was owned by Tim Hatfield and made Hatfield flint and percussion rifles. As most hand made firearm shops they were ran out of business by mass produced rifles sold in big box stores.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I remember The Hawken Shop on Lindbergh blvd. Went in there a few times, mostly for cannon fuse and powder. Pretty sure i got the powder there too but at that time it was the closest place to get fuse.
 

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I was in the Hawken Shop every month for about 5 years, back in the mid-70's when muzzleloading was exploding. I was in the 571st Mo. ANG Band at Lambert and duty was one weekend a month so I wasn't far from it. It was owned by Art Ressel who also owned the rights to the Hawken name. One of the stipulations to owning the rights to the Hawken name was if a rifle was produced it was to be an exact reproduction of the Hawken mountain rifle. I don't remember if it was Art personally or the executor's of his estate who sold the rights to The Gun Works in Oregon. I correspond regularly with one of their employees. I also own a Gun Works Hawken and if you want a real Hawken, not some wanna be named by another wanna be, I recommend them highly. Mine is a dead ringer for a mid-19th century Hawken mountain rifle. It darn sure doesn't look anything like what T/C insultingly calls a Hawken.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Personally im not a PRB fan or even a big fan of most sidelocks. I do however have a real soft spot for English sporting rifles in fast twist rates for large conicals. I dont even care about period correct as much as i do function. Rifles like the 451 Gibbs and Doc White's Sporting Rifles are really perty :D

Pedersoli now offers a Gibbs in a slightly more hunter friendly weight/length. Its still out of my price range though.

Its still a pig but its a perty pig

This is more my style. White 451 Sporting Rifle with a Douglas 1-20 and a Manton style breach.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
The guy that got that CVA has a really rare Green Mountain drop in barrel for Hawkens or a Renny. I forgot which but its a 1-18 cut rifled GMB that was a really limited offering many years ago. Most of the GMB drop in LRH 45s were 1-30 button rifled.

He also just built a 36cal 1-15 to shoot a Accurate Mold's 37-330L bullets in 40-1 alloy

Next to a BAPCO .45 541gr

 

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Personally, I'm not a fan of any in-line or substitute BP.

I've admired the Gibbs rifle for a couple decades, just haven't bought one yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
All he shoots is Swiss. That is all i would use if BH209 wasn't around or if i had a sidelock. He tried Olde Enysford but wasnt impressed. OE worked fine for me though.
 
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