Missouri Whitetails - Your Missouri Hunting Resource banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Bait Plotter Extraordinar
Joined
·
5,661 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Where to start ??? Not sure this is the correct forum to post this under as it encompasses many different topics and cover a wide range of subject matter however it is basically a management question so here goes...


I posted a predator control question on the ask MDC section , did not realize that after a MDC " monitor " gave their answer that the thread would be closed :confused: Ok I can understand not wanting to get involved in lengthy debates ( to an extent ) but really the answer I got was IMHO a caned/ standard press release type of government agency dribble .

First off most people who know me know I AM NOT a MDC basher and this is not my intent here however I expected more from anyone representing / working for the MDC ! Hope I'm not being naive. Also expected more from this site ! I realize this is a public forum and not anything goes but did expect to have a ( civil discussion / debate ) on the matter with someone who is supposed to be in the " know " as myself and other are interested in this subject.


I believe that proper habitat management is extremely important and have worked with MDC private lands people before, great people with some great ideas and very helpful. However to ignore and side step the issue because the MDC does not offer that program to to the public is in my opinion a injustice to the outdoor public.

I hope that with the number of monitor on this site that several of the ASK MDC topics will be brought up to PUBLIC discussion with MDC monitor ACTIVE in the discussion.

Thanks and sorry for the :soapbox:
 

·
King of Callaway
Joined
·
42,572 Posts
:thinking: I think you have a point, I also know unfortunatley there are people who jump at any chance they get to bash MDC and seem to enjoy dancing on the line and I'm guessing that they've ruined it for all of us
 

·
Jenny's Lackey
Joined
·
46,662 Posts
Sully, all topics in the "ask MDC" section are closed topics. No option of rebuttle in those forums.

If you'd like, I can make a copy of your question & the answer given into another forum so it can be further discussed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,002 Posts
[rquote=2185098&tid=152662&author=fishshooter]:thinking: I think you have a point, I also know unfortunatley there are people who jump at any chance they get to bash MDC and seem to enjoy dancing on the line and I'm guessing that they've ruined it for all of us[/rquote]

X2
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,430 Posts
well I read your MDC, thing and here's my take on it.
one thing that has really cut down trapping and hunting predators is low prices, the second and another big aspect of it is Deer hunting. many ppl are extemly passionate about deer hunting and won't let ppl hunt or trap on them but then complain about predators. everyone wants the nest raiders and predators gone but won't let anyone on their land. leases are another huge thing, ppl that pay money to lease land don't want anyone else on it for any reason because it may scare deer :blah: .

the 3rd thing is raptors, I'd say they kill alot of small game and yet you can't do anything about them. I've battled them before with my chickens. get a owl in the chicken house and they will kill several and eat part of 1 and leave the rest. just me I rate hawks and owls below possums, at least I can kill possums and get a quarter for em.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,104 Posts
Sully. I'm not an MDC basher either. But you forget one thing, the MDC has answers. But they answer to no one.

Not saying it's good, bad, or indifferent. It just "is."

Good post by the way. :cheers:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 90acres

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
5,092 Posts
I read his response and he said food and disease has more to do with predator poplulations historically than trapping. I thought he answered it pretty well. What do you think he is going to say? Shoot them anytime you see them and let them lie?

Just my 2 cents worth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69,438 Posts
His last sentence was an offer of help in a way. Maybe make a phone call.:shrug: I think I will.

"If you'd like to manage for small game animals on your farm, I recommend contacting your local Private Land Conservationist to help steer you in the right direction.."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,089 Posts
Sully, everything I have read, you can get some short term gains from predator control. But the year you stop, you will be back to where you were. Another problem is that there are so many types of predators and many are protected. You would have to declare war on quite a few types of critters.

Bottom line, to get sustainable quail populations, you have manage the habitat. Typically brood rearing habitat is the limiting factor. Survival rates over winter are pretty dismal even in good habitat, so the best thing you can do is give them the best chance to make as many as they can during the breeding season.

We have increased our quail population on our farm probably 600-700% if I had to guess in a 4 year time period. Not a predator was trapped. Well maybe 2 feral cats and a couple racoons that were eating my brother's chickens. :wave: We just manipulated the habitat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,772 Posts
I posted a similar question a year ago - why not list raccoons, 'possums, skunks in a season the same as coyote?

Dr Grant Woods claims a big increase in turkeys after a trapping program. Yes, it needs to be done yearly as more will fill in from the neighbors (primarily the males per his data). I bought a dozen dog-proof traps last fall and easily caught 20 ***** and 12 possums off the front 40 acres. If I saved one turkey nest this spring within 2 miles I would consider it a success.
 

·
Biology nit wit exposer
Joined
·
80,689 Posts
Like PW said the MDC [email protected] forums were setup for no responses. There are alot of folks that would just use it to rail on folks who volunteer their time to give answers . If responses were allowed it would probably turn into the debate topics. For alternate views or sudgestions there is the habitat and management topic that usually stimulates alot of thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
798 Posts
[rquote=2185096&tid=152662&author=Sully]However to ignore and side step the issue because the MDC does not offer that program to to the public is in my opinion a injustice to the outdoor public.

[/rquote]

Sully...I respectfully disagree. To say that MDC doesn't offer a program is not accurate. There is a lot opportunity to hunt and trap fur bearers in Missouri, much of which most do not take advantage of. If you are sustaining damage to crops or other property you can get a damage permit that will allow you to take care of those situations.

As for large scale reduction of predator numbers...there simply are not enough individuals interested in hunting and trapping of fur bearers for the specific reason you stated. There's no money in it.

Discussions of expanding seasons for raccoons have been brought before the regulations committee and are strongly opposed by the trappers of the state because trapping would occur outside of the time when furs are "prime".
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
5,092 Posts
[rquote=2185422&tid=152662&author=MDC Deer][rquote=2185096&tid=152662&author=Sully]However to ignore and side step the issue because the MDC does not offer that program to to the public is in my opinion a injustice to the outdoor public.

[/rquote]

Sully...I respectfully disagree. To say that MDC doesn't offer a program is not accurate. There is a lot opportunity to hunt and trap fur bearers in Missouri, much of which most do not take advantage of. If you are sustaining damage to crops or other property you can get a damage permit that will allow you to take care of those situations.

As for large scale reduction of predator numbers...there simply are not enough individuals interested in hunting and trapping of fur bearers for the specific reason you stated. There's no money in it.

Discussions of expanding seasons for raccoons have been brought before the regulations committee and are strongly opposed by the trappers of the state because trapping would occur outside of the time when furs are "prime". [/rquote]

Thanks for your response and keep the high ground. .02
 

·
Bait Plotter Extraordinar
Joined
·
5,661 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
[rquote=2185204&tid=152662&author=letemgrow]Habitat is all you need for lots of quail Sully. Habitat is to blame, not the predators.[/rquote]

habitat is important no doubt however it say it is the only factor is untrue ! Several studies have been done in the the prime waterfowl breeding areas of north central U.S and Canada with predator control and non predator control on nesting ducks and while results very some ALL show increase in nest productions in predator controlled areas !

I have research materiel if any would like me to post it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,853 Posts
[rquote=2185109&tid=152662&author=chuck88]well I read your MDC, thing and here's my take on it.
one thing that has really cut down trapping and hunting predators is low prices, the second and another big aspect of it is Deer hunting. many ppl are extemly passionate about deer hunting and won't let ppl hunt or trap on them but then complain about predators. everyone wants the nest raiders and predators gone but won't let anyone on their land. leases are another huge thing, ppl that pay money to lease land don't want anyone else on it for any reason because it may scare deer :blah: .[/rquote]

Pretty much sums it up right there. I wish those guys would come **** huntin with me one night and see that it dont scare deer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,089 Posts
Sully, ducks and quail are like apples and oranges. While I don't disagree with the fact that you will see an increase in nesting success with trapping predators. I think chick survival resulting from poor brood rearing habitat is definitely a limiting factor. That component to the habitat is typically what is missing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nontypical

·
Bait Plotter Extraordinar
Joined
·
5,661 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
[rquote=2185422&tid=152662&author=MDC Deer][rquote=2185096&tid=152662&author=Sully]However to ignore and side step the issue because the MDC does not offer that program to to the public is in my opinion a injustice to the outdoor public.

[/rquote]

Sully...I respectfully disagree. To say that MDC doesn't offer a program is not accurate. There is a lot opportunity to hunt and trap fur bearers in Missouri, much of which most do not take advantage of. If you are sustaining damage to crops or other property you can get a damage permit that will allow you to take care of those situations.

As for large scale reduction of predator numbers...there simply are not enough individuals interested in hunting and trapping of fur bearers for the specific reason you stated. There's no money in it.

Discussions of expanding seasons for raccoons have been brought before the regulations committee and are strongly opposed by the trappers of the state because trapping would occur outside of the time when furs are "prime". [/rquote]

Thank you MDCdeer for replying to this post

Please let me reply point by point

First crop damage is classified under Nuance animals and yes I understand and have known about MDCs program for some time. My question is does the MDC flattly deny that the amount of nest raiding predators we have in Missouri now and for the past decade has had NO effect on ground nesting birds here ????????? I do realize that small game and game bird populations run in cycles however it seems to me that in the height of trapping popularity and high fir prices Missouri ground nesting birds were at there peek. A coincidence ?

I understand the financial aspect of the decline of fur bearer harvest and is exactly my point .... If the MDC has discussed extending **** season obviously SOMEONE there is seeing a problem and In my opinion saying " o well we can't get enough people to hunt them " is a cop out. I know the harvesting fur bearers is a political hot potato but kicking the problem down the road is no answer
 

·
Bait Plotter Extraordinar
Joined
·
5,661 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
[rquote=2186441&tid=152662&author=HabitatMD]Sully, ducks and quail are like apples and oranges. While I don't disagree with the fact that you will see an increase in nesting success with trapping predators. I think chick survival resulting from poor brood rearing habitat is definitely a limiting factor. That component to the habitat is typically what is missing.[/rquote]

I think we could use alot more of both no question . One observation I have made over the years ( have no science to back it up ) is the disparity in the ( grouth ) size of wild turkey broods this time of year. What I mean is I see anything from quail size to almost grown turkey poult this time of year which suggest to me that many hens are re nesting ( assumable after first or second nest are destroyed and again assuming from predator raiding ) This is something that again my observation didn't happen as much a decade or more ago
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
961 Posts
Sully I do my best to trap every season, and I take my fair share of critters! But like chuck said there just isn't no money in it. U got to love doing it because if u kept tract of what u spent and what u made, it would upset most people like a Possum in an empty hen house. But I will always trap regardless. When its in :cheers:your blood,you can't quitt! Good luck taking care of those critter
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top