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I encourage everyone that has an interest in predator removal affects to read this article.https://bioone.org/journals/Wildlif...-bobwhite-reproduction/10.2981/wlb.00357.full

For those that don't have the time and want a somewhat shortened version, this is what the article said...

* Predation is the largest source of mortality among avian populations (Ricklefs 1969, Martin 1993, Thompson 2007, Conner et al. 2010).
* Early avian life stages are particularly vulnerable to predation mortality (O'Conner 1991, Coté and Sutherland 1997).
* High levels of nest predation can limit avian recruitment and reduce population growth (Cowardin et al. 1985).
* Because ground-nesting birds are particularly susceptible to nest predation by meso-mammals (Rogers and Heard 2000, Jimenez and Conover 2001), managers are often interested in manipulating this predator community to enhance avian reproduction and population densities (Coté and Sutherland 1997, Ellis-Felege et al. 2012).
* Trapping was effective at reducing predator activity.
* Nests were 1.33 times more likely to be successful on trapped sites than non-trapped sites Fig.1.
* for every 100 hens they produced 14 more nests on trapped sites Fig. 2).
* for every 100 hens they produced 12 more broods (Fig. 3).
* for every 100 hens they produced 109 more chicks on trapped sites Fig. 4).

* Furthermore, we did not find a negative effect between residual predators and chicks hen-1 among trapped sites.
* We found support that predation limits bobwhite reproduction by reducing nest success, nests hen-1, broods hen-1 and chicks hen-1.
* After controlling for predator removal (i.e. sub-setting analysis to only trapped sites), we did not detect a negative relationship between residual predator activity and reproduction suggesting that trapping was effective at reducing predation.
* We found trapped sites to have a lower average predator index than non-trapped sites, suggesting that MMTR reduces predator activity.
* Collectively, our results suggest management of meso-predators to improve reproduction is feasible when habitat resources are not deficient...
* Bobwhite population growth is most sensitive to the variation in reproductive demographics (Sander**** 2006, Stahl and Oli 2006); thus, it is reasonable to believe that the increases in reproduction, especially nests hen-1, broods hen-1 and chicks hen-1, we observed would lead to population growth.

* Meso-mammal trap and removal is effective at reducing meso-mammal populations within a year, but annual implementation is likely required to impede their reestablishment upon cessation of trapping (Tapper et al. 1996, Ellis-Felege et al. 2010). * MMTR is an effective tool for bobwhite managers, however, it should be used under appropriate conditions within a holistic management regime. That is, MMTR should complement other management actions, as habitat management is fundamental to bobwhite management (Stoddard 1931, Rosene 1969, Brennan 1991).

* We found support that trapping reduced meso-mammals to a level that residual predators were not limiting bobwhite reproduction.

* This study was conducted on sites with a long history of bobwhite management and maintaining consistently high abundance compared to other areas throughout the range of bobwhites (Stribling and Sisson 2009, Terhune et al. 2007). Therefore, where habitat is limited, meso-mammal populations could be different and the effects of trapping on bobwhite reproduction could be different as well.
* In areas where habitat is managed intensively and resources (i.e. food and cover) are not likely limited, bobwhite population performance may be limited by meso-mammal predation pressure.
* As such, managers focused on maximizing bobwhite populations should consider meso-mammal trap and removal as a tool to reduce predation pressure attributed to meso-mammals, especially during habitat restoration phases of management.
* Given that meso-predators can recolonize rapidly and are capable of high reproduction, annual application of MMTR may be required to mitigate reestablishment of predator communities upon cessation of trapping.
* Meso-mammal trap and removal should complement other management actions, and be used following or in conjunction with habitat management.
 

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Mr Snippet's head just exploded. :D
Nope, because what they did is not possible or legal for people in MO.

Plus, while some research is applicable to both quail and turkeys this specific research is not because of the vast differences in how many quail nests can be impacted in a small area. A quails home range is likely less than 200 acres. A turkeys home range is 4000 acres.

This research also notes that this only works if there is sufficient habitat to support more nesting, which is a limiting factor for almost all landowners when dealing with turkeys.
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:rofl:
 

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Freaking comical how the he uses quail, geese, ostrichs, and seagulls to rationalize his wrong opinion on turkey nesting and predation but when someone else uses it he pulls the “That’s not valid” bullchit.

My simple takeaway then is open up trapping season 365 days a year on the SOBs. Problem solved. Really sweeten the pot by adding a bounty. And no, I could care less if the final destination of every damn ****, possum, and skunk is rotting in a ditch somewhere or how bad it may piss off some hipster whose sole connection to MDC is geocaching or frisbee golf on a conservative area.

Grow a set and implement something that will at least partially help fix the problem.
 

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You stopped your red underline 11 words too short :rofl:
No, I didnt. No one has EVER stated that predators dont suppress prey populations. Thats the very point of a predator prey relationship.

You boys are having a tickle fest with each other over a report that doesnt even support your assertion, and you are all to dumb to even realize it...
 

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Freaking comical how the he uses quail, geese, ostrichs, and seagulls to rationalize his wrong opinion on turkey nesting and predation but when someone else uses it he pulls the "That's not valid" bullchit.

My simple takeaway then is open up trapping season 365 days a year on the SOBs. Problem solved. Really sweeten the pot by adding a bounty. And no, I could care less if the final destination of every damn ****, possum, and skunk is rotting in a ditch somewhere or how bad it may piss off some hipster whose sole connection to MDC is geocaching or frisbee golf on a conservative area.

Grow a set and implement something that will at least partially help fix the problem.
It isnt valid in this way. The scale at which it may impact an animal with a very small range that is already at near peak levels and has unlimited habitat is not the same as an animal that has a huge range, has very substantial habitat limitations (in most cases) and is not near peak levels.

The author has explained to me that the scale would have to be "much greater" to have any impact on turkeys.... think about that..... they trapped on average 10,000 acres for 7 months during nesting season and it would have to be not a bit greater but MUCH GREATER to help turkeys. Thats on top of needing unlimited nesting habitat which they dont have..... IT WONT WORK IT DOESNT WORK
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So, not only am I one of the deplorables, but now I am also one of the dumbs! But that's ok because I would rather have quail than turkeys anyway. :banana:
Oh wait, quail habitat will also help my turkeys! :) :cheers:
 

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So, not only am I one of the deplorables, but now I am also one of the dumbs! But that's ok because I would rather have quail than turkeys anyway. :banana:
Oh wait, quail habitat will also help my turkeys! :) :cheers:
Heres a better breakdown of the study results.

"They increased nest success 8% (48 to 56), but that value fell right in
middle of the low (29%) and high (72%) that they found across 11 sites
across all 8 years. Working with their number of 2499 nests in total,
that is an increase of about 200 additional nests being successful,
spread over 8 years and 11 sites. So an increase of ~25 more nests per
year, across 11 sites per year equates to about 2 additional successful
nests per year per site. And these are places with the best of
everything relative to quail management and they only gained a couple
nests per year per site.

So, endgame, yes MMTR had a positive impact, and their study was well
done, but not to a game changing level. Scale of applicability becomes
an issue."
 

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No, I didnt. No one has EVER stated that predators dont suppress prey populations. Thats the very point of a predator prey relationship.

You boys are having a tickle fest with each other over a report that doesnt even support your assertion, and you are all to dumb to even realize it...
No hawk-flake, you did in fact stop short.

It says, "In areas where habitat is managed intensively and resources are not likely limited, the population performance may be limited by meso-mammal predation pressure."

For you to call someone else dumb, is in fact, a leap of great faith! :banging: :rofl:
 
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Would you say that the scale and scope of that study was within the reach of most Missouri landowners??
it DOESN"T MATTER!!!! POINT IS TRAPPING CAN AND DOES HELP! You have been feeding this bcrap that no matter the predator population ONLY HABITAT can help! it's a lie, you need both, habitat & predator control!
 
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