CWD IN IOWA

Discussion in 'Whitetails General' started by Stan The Man, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. callaojoe

    callaojoe Máistir an pointe hocht.

    Jan 21, 2004
    N/C Missouri
    Turn em loose, they will eventually return to wild running animals...

    Turn a chicken, cow, or hog loose.... They'll just stumble around looking for handout foods, until they get hit by a car or something.

    Whitetails have not been pred to the point they are no longer whitetails. Just because you but a wild animal in a pen, does not mean it's all of the sudden "domesticated".... If you doubt that, why don't you go crawl in the bear enclosure at the zoo with the Grizzer bears.... :wave1: Once again, a wild animal, even if it's in a cage.
     
    421sd likes this.
  2. henry

    henry Fan Boy aka Mr Twisty and

    I realize that courts are subject to influence from political climates so the court decision is far from a given. These guys are operating under "captive wildlife" licenses and selling "hunts" while claiming they don't have wildlife. Lol
     
    20' and callaojoe like this.

  3. thwackaddict

    thwackaddict Senior Member

    Nov 1, 2007
    NW Missouri
    Can I shoot it in the cage? Just kidding.:D
     
  4. callaojoe

    callaojoe Máistir an pointe hocht.

    Jan 21, 2004
    N/C Missouri
    Plenty of people do, and Hawk says it's all good if they call those fair chase kills too....

    He seems to not be able to make distinctions very well. Shooting penned animals is fair chase, but they are not wild animals, they are live stock according to him. Anyone else see the problem with that belief??? :D
     
    20' likes this.
  5. 20'

    20' Well-Known Member

    Aug 9, 2017

    I definitely agree with you premise, but the deer in Jefferson Barracks are 100% IMO, but yet they have been conditioned to walk up and eat out of peoples hands...so some of the pen deer are far more tame.
     
  6. callaojoe

    callaojoe Máistir an pointe hocht.

    Jan 21, 2004
    N/C Missouri
    People start trying to kill them, and that'll change quickly.
     
    letemgrow likes this.
  7. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    You are getting confused are mixing things up... so its the HUNTING part thats the issue?? Lets take hunting and shooting of these animals completely out. What are they then?
     
  8. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    No, hogs and cows and horse will eventually return to wild. Thats why we have feral pigs and horses....
     
  9. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    This is the DUMBEST argument made about this issue.....
     
  10. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    I said that its not my decision what someone else considers fair chase, and thats true. Its up to them, and my definition probably varies from theirs. I never said that "I" considered hunting inside an enclosure fair chase.


    To illustrate the point: imagine a deer chained to a post in a 10’x10’ chain-link enclosed pen, being shot at close range. Clearly this is not fair chase: the deer has no ability to avoid death, and the hunter needs no ability at such close range either to pursue or to shoot the tethered animal.


    Remove the tether. Now the deer is in a 10 x 10 enclosure, but can move around. Is this fair chase? Clearly the hunter is at more of a disadvantage than in the first scenario: the deer may jump at precisely the same moment as he/she squeezes the trigger, and the hunter may wound the animal or possibly even miss entirely. It may take two shots to bring the animal down, particularly for a poor marksman.


    Does this second scenario constitute fair chase? Clearly not, the animal is still enclosed, and little to no skill is needed on the part of the hunter.


    Let us now imagine that we expand the enclosure—how about a full acre? And while we are at it, let’s add an acre’s worth of brushy vegetation. The deer has the ability to roam about, but the hunter must still stay out of the fence to shoot the animal.


    All the hunter need do in this case, is wait patiently for the deer to come along within view inside the fence, and take a killing shot.


    Is this fair chase? Probably not, although now the lines are getting a little more fuzzy. How does waiting outside the fence differ from an archer sitting and waiting in a tree stand? But I’ll leave that question for another essay.


    Let’s keep going, trying to get closer to fair chase. Let’s put a gate in the fence, and allow the hunter to enter and pursue the animal within the one-acre confines of the enclosure. The animal can still move around and has plenty of early-successional shrubland (let’s go ahead and fill the enclosure with thorny multiflora rose and honeysuckle) in which to hide.


    Now it takes the hunter the better part of a morning to locate, stalk, and shoot the deer. But after several hours of patient stalking, the hunter is successful.


    Does this “hunt” now constitute “fair chase”? Observe that we have come a fair way from shooting the animal that was tethered inside what was essentially a dog pen.


    Most hunters still would not be comfortable labeling the one-acre stalk on a deer--multiflora rose or not--as a fair chase hunt. And yet notice that some hunters might . . . . We can imagine hunters with disabilities, for example, who might be content with such a one-acre stalk if confined to a wheel chair. Or a young hunter, just starting out, may appreciate and learn from such an experience.

    Note that I am not implying that this necessarily would be a good hunt, for young hunters or hunters with disabilities. I am simply suggesting that the hunt might provide sufficient challenge to each individual hunter, and each hunter might possibly go home satisfied with their hunting experience.


    Now let’s continue the sorites part of our thought experiment. Let’s rerun the thought experiment a thousand times, adding one additional acre with each repetition. First the hunter pursues the deer in a two-acre enclosure, and then in a three-acre enclosure . . . and so on, and so on, and so on. (And let’s, for the sake of argument, assume there is only a single, individual deer to be pursued—not legions of overpopulated deer as occur in many areas of the country.)

    At what point does the enclosure become large enough that we cross a line between canned hunting and fair chase?


    Perhaps never, for some hunters. For them, hunting inside a fence is always unethical. But for others, trying to pursue a single deer in a 1,000-acre enclosure, or a 5,000-acre enclosure, or a 20,000-acre enclosure, would be challenging and fair regardless of the proximity of the fence.


    So now let’s just remove the fence. And imagine the same, solitary, single deer roaming about unrestricted over a 20,000-acre, or 50,000-acre, fenceless area. Would this hunt now constitute fair chase?


    I’m pretty sure if you plunked down a hard-core deer hunter, and took away his tree stand, and made him stalk a single deer over 50,000 acres (that’s 78.125 square miles!), he or she would most likely call that a fair chase hunt.


    While I myself might never hunt a captive animal in a high fence setting, unlike David Petersen I am not about to tell someone else that they should not do so. As long as a hunter conscientiously strives for a clean, quick, one-shot kill, and does so safely while respecting the law, then that hunter acts ethically and morally.


    The difference between canned hunting and fair chase is like the difference between a grain of sand and a pile of sand. When viewed on each end of the hunting spectrum, fair chase and canned hunting are clearly different. But there is no distinct line, no clearly unambiguous boundary, to be drawn between fair chase and canned hunts, or between honorable hunters and cowards.
     
  11. 20'

    20' Well-Known Member

    Aug 9, 2017
    you cannot pick a turd up by the clean end!
     
    tcwild and callaojoe like this.
  12. 20'

    20' Well-Known Member

    Aug 9, 2017
    and no such thing as being a little pregnant! High fence no matter how many acres = NOT fair chase
     
  13. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    You obviously didnt read the quote I posted.
     
  14. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    Read it again 20... slowly.... You can have your opinion and line, but you must acknowledge that others may have a different line.

    To illustrate the point: imagine a deer chained to a post in a 10’x10’ chain-link enclosed pen, being shot at close range. Clearly this is not fair chase: the deer has no ability to avoid death, and the hunter needs no ability at such close range either to pursue or to shoot the tethered animal.


    Remove the tether. Now the deer is in a 10 x 10 enclosure, but can move around. Is this fair chase? Clearly the hunter is at more of a disadvantage than in the first scenario: the deer may jump at precisely the same moment as he/she squeezes the trigger, and the hunter may wound the animal or possibly even miss entirely. It may take two shots to bring the animal down, particularly for a poor marksman.


    Does this second scenario constitute fair chase? Clearly not, the animal is still enclosed, and little to no skill is needed on the part of the hunter.


    Let us now imagine that we expand the enclosure—how about a full acre? And while we are at it, let’s add an acre’s worth of brushy vegetation. The deer has the ability to roam about, but the hunter must still stay out of the fence to shoot the animal.


    All the hunter need do in this case, is wait patiently for the deer to come along within view inside the fence, and take a killing shot.


    Is this fair chase? Probably not, although now the lines are getting a little more fuzzy. How does waiting outside the fence differ from an archer sitting and waiting in a tree stand? But I’ll leave that question for another essay.


    Let’s keep going, trying to get closer to fair chase. Let’s put a gate in the fence, and allow the hunter to enter and pursue the animal within the one-acre confines of the enclosure. The animal can still move around and has plenty of early-successional shrubland (let’s go ahead and fill the enclosure with thorny multiflora rose and honeysuckle) in which to hide.


    Now it takes the hunter the better part of a morning to locate, stalk, and shoot the deer. But after several hours of patient stalking, the hunter is successful.


    Does this “hunt” now constitute “fair chase”? Observe that we have come a fair way from shooting the animal that was tethered inside what was essentially a dog pen.


    Most hunters still would not be comfortable labeling the one-acre stalk on a deer--multiflora rose or not--as a fair chase hunt. And yet notice that some hunters might . . . . We can imagine hunters with disabilities, for example, who might be content with such a one-acre stalk if confined to a wheel chair. Or a young hunter, just starting out, may appreciate and learn from such an experience.

    Note that I am not implying that this necessarily would be a good hunt, for young hunters or hunters with disabilities. I am simply suggesting that the hunt might provide sufficient challenge to each individual hunter, and each hunter might possibly go home satisfied with their hunting experience.


    Now let’s continue the sorites part of our thought experiment. Let’s rerun the thought experiment a thousand times, adding one additional acre with each repetition. First the hunter pursues the deer in a two-acre enclosure, and then in a three-acre enclosure . . . and so on, and so on, and so on. (And let’s, for the sake of argument, assume there is only a single, individual deer to be pursued—not legions of overpopulated deer as occur in many areas of the country.)

    At what point does the enclosure become large enough that we cross a line between canned hunting and fair chase?


    Perhaps never, for some hunters. For them, hunting inside a fence is always unethical. But for others, trying to pursue a single deer in a 1,000-acre enclosure, or a 5,000-acre enclosure, or a 20,000-acre enclosure, would be challenging and fair regardless of the proximity of the fence.


    So now let’s just remove the fence. And imagine the same, solitary, single deer roaming about unrestricted over a 20,000-acre, or 50,000-acre, fenceless area. Would this hunt now constitute fair chase?


    I’m pretty sure if you plunked down a hard-core deer hunter, and took away his tree stand, and made him stalk a single deer over 50,000 acres (that’s 78.125 square miles!), he or she would most likely call that a fair chase hunt.


    While I myself might never hunt a captive animal in a high fence setting, unlike David Petersen I am not about to tell someone else that they should not do so. As long as a hunter conscientiously strives for a clean, quick, one-shot kill, and does so safely while respecting the law, then that hunter acts ethically and morally.


    The difference between canned hunting and fair chase is like the difference between a grain of sand and a pile of sand. When viewed on each end of the hunting spectrum, fair chase and canned hunting are clearly different. But there is no distinct line, no clearly unambiguous boundary, to be drawn between fair chase and canned hunts, or between honorable hunters and cowards.
     
  15. henry

    henry Fan Boy aka Mr Twisty and

    Hardly. You should read the stupid chit the pet deer shooter suporters post. Lol
     
  16. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    Just because someone is OBLIGATED and FORCED to obtain a certain type of permit to operate doesnt mean that their property instantly becomes something different.
     
  17. bajabill

    bajabill BDR529

    Feb 16, 2012
    East Central MO
    the name of an agency does not limit or define what it must be assigned to have authority over and not.
     
  18. 20'

    20' Well-Known Member

    Aug 9, 2017
     
  19. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    In YOUR opinion...
     
  20. 20'

    20' Well-Known Member

    Aug 9, 2017
    no, In the opinion of sportsman and those that govern our sport, like PY & BC.

    Anyone who wants to pay to hunt high fence, have fun, enjoy yourselves, it's a type of hunting, just not fair chase hunting.