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Creek Access

1127 Views 44 Replies 21 Participants Last post by  rat, 
Bootheel Boy
What’s the law on fishing small creeks? Are they public or are they owned by a person? I waded a small creek 25 years ago and would like to again this summer. Now that I’m older and wiser I don’t want to trespass on anyone. I was always told the water was public but I wasn’t allowed to climb up on the bank since it was private. I’d have to access the water by going down at a bridge.
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CuivreDog2
Is it a navigable waterway? if it is you are correct about access to the "normal" waterline.

If it's not navigable you are trespassing according to MO law
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beanpile
Bootheel Boy said:
What’s the law on fishing small creeks? Are they public or are they owned by a person? I waded a small creek 25 years ago and would like to again this summer. Now that I’m older and wiser I don’t want to trespass on anyone. I was always told the water was public but I wasn’t allowed to climb up on the bank since it was private. I’d have to access the water by going down at a bridge.
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my understanding is it has to be "navigatable" water to be public..not sure what Defines "navigatable " tho
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MOGC
I think Missouri's laws on this in the past have been unclear with too much grey area. I think "navigable" is what you're looking for. Can you easily float a boat? If you get out of the water and onto private ground you are definitely trespassing. I think you are smart for researching this before you take off. Maybe a call to the local conservation agent would help.
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Bootheel Boy
I’ve emailed the Conservation Agent in the county the creek is located. I figure he would know and I would have a record of what I was told by using email. It’s a marked creek on all maps and at bridges. Navigable could depend. It’s 50 feet wide and a foot deep in most places and other places it’s deeper and narrower. It’s spring fed so it always has water but I’m sure in years of drought it gets too low to float a boat in places.
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G
in MO it depends on whether, in its normal and unaltered condition, the stream could be used for commercial purposes to be considered navigable. Sometimes historical timber floating commerce helps make the case regarding navigability and commercial use. Just because you could float a small canoe or kayak on portions of it DOES NOT make it navigable. Just because you see people in it and nobody cares or runs them out DOES NOT make it navigable. in non-navigable streams, the bed is private. if somebody gives you access, you can float wherever because nobody owns water. and may have portage rights across private ground. but doing anything besides porting while touching the stream bed would be trespassing.

unless you think that a stream would obviously pass the commerce-focused navigable test if you were standing in front of a judge, I'd try to get permission or ask a landowner what's up on the specific stream.

the accuracy of advice from your MDC agent for that county will depend on how long they have been around and their knowledge of MO water rights law.
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Moonshine
One test of a navigable stream is, “Was it used to transport logs in the past?”
Good luck, but don’t get shot over a few fish
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Bootheel Boy
Moonshine said:
One test of a navigable stream is, “Was it used to transport logs in the past?”
Good luck, but don’t get shot over a few fish
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I’m not going to trespass. If I go I will be legal. That’s the reason for asking here and contacting MDC. If it’s not public I won’t fish it. I’m not gonna try to contact a dozen different landowners 50 miles from my home to ask permission for one or two trips a year on a 2 mile stretch of creek I want to fish.
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M
Every game warden I have asked have different answers and always say it’s a gray area. One told me you have to the high water mark before your trespassing and the other said as soon as you step foot out of the boat your trespassing. After following the guy that got shot in Steelville on the gravel bar a few years ago, it was not trespassing down there in that situation.
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P
My buddies and I have a test that never fails in determining whether a stream is navigable. We our big fans of AB so we will drink a bunch of Bud Light and then throw a half dozen empty cans into the river. If they float downstream, that is good enough for us to consider it navigable. Hasn't failed us yet.
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Moonshine
The game warden in MacDonald County has told me it is legal to use a campground’s boat ramp, sidewalk, etc to go around a low head dam on Elk river. We were just paying the campground for access until they cut off weekend use and started charging 10 bucks a person.
I wish they would just implode the damn dam but I doubt that happens.
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Ginger
The property line does not stop at the bank on private property. For it to be used as navigable, they mean by boat - with only a foot of water I would say probably not navigable.

Trespassing

Paddlers and anglers often ask whether they have a legal right to use Missouri’s streams. The answer is yes … in some places and in some ways. Missouri’s rivers and streams can be classified as:
mdc.mo.gov mdc.mo.gov
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B
Real shaky ground in any case. By the floating logs thing I'd say anything smaller than current or middle mermamec is private property.
Good luck arguing the navigatable thing while the landowners pointin' his 12 gauge at you and mentioning how his hogs will clean up anything you toss in the pen.
Glad I don't own land on a pseudo floatable stream so I don't have to deal with the idiot kayakers and canoers. Tho i guess could watch the topless babes smoking dope and doing jello shots.
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Reflex
Beerman said:
Real shaky ground in any case. By the floating logs thing I'd say anything smaller than current or middle mermamec is private property.
Good luck arguing the navigatable thing while the landowners pointin' his 12 gauge at you and mentioning how his hogs will clean up anything you toss in the pen.
Glad I don't own land on a pseudo floatable stream so I don't have to deal with the idiot kayakers and canoers. Tho i guess could watch the topless babes smoking dope and doing jello shots.
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Courtois and Huzzah are both smaller and navigable. Commercial outfitters also make the streams navigable. Include the Bourbeuse in that as well.
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Reflex
Black River as well
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G
Ginger said:
The property line does not stop at the bank on private property. For it to be used as navigable, they mean by boat - with only a foot of water I would say probably not navigable.

Trespassing

Paddlers and anglers often ask whether they have a legal right to use Missouri’s streams. The answer is yes … in some places and in some ways. Missouri’s rivers and streams can be classified as:
mdc.mo.gov mdc.mo.gov
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that MDC link fails to mention the Missouri navigability test of commercial use, which is really key to determining navigability in Missouri. most streams that are navigable in Missouri are still seeing relatively high "commercial" usage still today with floaters and anglers. generally speaking, most others that are not seeing high boater and angler use today, are not navigable in Missouri.

lots of states have slightly different rules on this topic.
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timberdoodle
Reflex said:
Courtois and Huzzah are both smaller and navigable. Commercial outfitters also make the streams navigable. Include the Bourbeuse in that as well.
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I was gonna say that commercial canoe outfits, operating on a stream upstream from you , that travels through areas bordered by private ground on each side of the stream, is a great indication that you’re ok to wade fish it . Also if there’s a MDC access upstream from you, you’re going to be ok . Provided in both cases that you’re accessing the stream without trespassing
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G
timberdoodle said:
I was gonna say that commercial canoe outfits, operating on a stream upstream from you , that travels through areas bordered by private ground on each side of the stream, is a great indication that you’re ok to wade fish it . Also if there’s a MDC access upstream from you, you’re going to be ok . Provided in both cases that you’re accessing the stream without trespassing
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also checking county maps. if the property goes to the middle of the stream instead of stopping on the bank, it is almost guaranteed to be non navigable.
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Reflex
timberdoodle said:
I was gonna say that commercial canoe outfits, operating on a stream upstream from you , that travels through areas bordered by private ground on each side of the stream, is a great indication that you’re ok to wade fish it . Also if there’s a MDC access upstream from you, you’re going to be ok . Provided in both cases that you’re accessing the stream without trespassing
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Bourbeuse is navigable from Millrock to Devils back. I think Devils back is the only outfitter I know of there. Although I have floated from Hwy T down in the past.
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timberdoodle
Reflex said:
Bourbeuse is navigable from Millrock to Devils back. I think Devils back is the only outfitter I know of there. Although I have floated from Hwy T down in the past.
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I’ve never floated above Mill rock , I think there are access above it though.Tea and Mint spring I believe
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