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Discussion in 'Social Club' started by callaojoe, Mar 14, 2018.
Hey, they didn't discuss the pros and cons of all-day turkey hunting did they?
They did in 2016. That was when i presented the resolution to suppirt all day hunting to the committee and it passed with only 1 or 2 no votes (you can guess who one those votes was)...
The pros as discussed were:
- increased opportunity for school aged kids to hunt after school
- increased opportunity for those that dont have time or vacation due to work to enjoy spring turkey hunting
- that a larger proportion of MO tyrkey hunters surveyed, supported all day hubting in the spring, rhan the proportion that supported adding crossbows... and this support has been consistent for several years (i believe over a decade actually
-that all day hunting would not cause significant increases to turkey harvest while providing additional access to MO turkey resources
-that turkeys are a highly renewable resource because they are such a short lived bird and because hens are not legal in the spring (unless bearded). This makes it an animal that can be harvested fairly heavily and still not impact overall turkey of gobbler numbers year to year
The cons were:
- MDC may have to listen to a few grumpy selfish old men that will feel that MDC is making access to turjey hunting to easy and are allowing others to shoot THEIR turkeys
- potential conflicts on public ground with other users like mushroom hunters
That was the gist of it. Our turkey bio looked over the resolution, along with 2 former turkey bios (one of which was a former head turkey resource scientist for the department) and none had any objections...
We need an smiley of a rat leading a donkey or bring back beating a dead horse
I'd like to know what was discussed about the new state parks and the Rock Island trail. I saw a brief article that they voted to support these. I need to get on that voting panel and try to get that corrected. Jay Nixon state park? Really? They let you in free but charge you to leave?
Is that the one down by Table Rock? I seem to remember Brandon (the director) writing a big article about the new state park.
Not sure, there was a list of multiple state parks. We can't support the ones we have, but one named after Nixon is ridiculous unless the land was donated by him.
"a few grumpy selfish old men" Hey, I resemble that remark!
The Outlook for all day turkey hunting doesn't seem too bright right now based on this year's presentation.
The estimated turkey population in the presentation the previous 3 years was 320,000. After the recent blast of record poor production this year's estimate was 300,000.
There was no mention this year of it looking like they could possibly provide more opportunity.
My personal opinion based on the recent record poor production all day hunting won't be on the table until a turn around is sustained for awhile. At this point I think some might be wondering if we have actually hit "the mean" or if it might possibly be lower. 02
Missed out on that I guess. Interesting reading the comments. Looks like the Nixon park money was supposed to be used for something else. Figures.
Sounds like, given my lack of turkey hunting skillz.... I should just play golf, look for mushrooms, or go fishing this spring. Thanks.
be nice if the MDC or anyone could figure out what is causing the low productions. I don't by the weather as birds have been breeding in the Spring since global warming began after the ice age.
why not turkey hunt a couple hours than do all that stuff afterwards!
Populations have gone up, and down since then too....
I propose we come to a compromise, and just allow turkey hunting in the middle of the day.... 3 hours after sunrise, to 3 hours before sunset. No need to get up early then.
This years presentation referenced in several places the need to "evaluate the appropriateness of harvest regulations". It also states "Survival rates of adult turkeys greater than or comparable to previous studies" and "recruitment is the cause of the decline" and "relatively low spring harvest rates", "sustainable spring harvest rates given low recruitment"
Given those statements and the upcoming total review of turkey management plan and regulations this spring/summer based on study results I dont see any reason why they wont go ahead with all day hunting soon, possibly for 2019. Its such a no brainer, and they know it.
Last years nest success was some of the best we have seen in probably a decade in the NE region. Poult survival was the main issue. There have been differing reasons why production was low the last few years though. Some years its low nest success, some its low poult survival, some years even have low nest initiation meaning fewer even try. The point is, its not one thing thats the issue. Yes, raccoons are more plentiful, but a year like last year shows us that turkeys can have excellent nesting success even with very high levels of coon populations. Had post hatching weather NOT been atrocious we likely would have had a huge PHR last summer/fall...
They also are becoming more focused on simple density dependence in reproduction levels. Meaning, because turkeys have reached a very high density in the state, filling all available habitat, they dont need to reproduce as vigorously so they dont. The only way to negate that it would seem is to create more suitable habitat. But in most places we are doing the exact opposite. We are turning nesting habitat into farm fields. We are doing TSI work and not burning, etc. These things make those habitats virtually unusable for turkeys to nest, brood, etc.
There are lots of factors, but the silver lining is, MO has a ton of turkeys, they are still extremely numerous and available for hunters, and we kill a VERY small proportion of the males each year, and an insignificant amount of juvenile males. This means that what is produced can be harvested liberally without adverse impacts to the flock or hunting quality.
P:H ratio is down against the 5 year average in all regions vs the 5 yr ave for the 2nd year in a row. Because the NE and NW was closer to the 5 year average it doesnt mean that there was poor production in all the other regions, including some of the most productive hunting regions in MO. We have a lot of turkeys, yes but the pattern of declining production is concerning.
It isnt a rosey picture...
You should have plenty since you ain't been killing them