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Biology nit wit exposer
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What made you think you needed a covid shot to begin with ?

I can't remember a year in my life that they didnt announce when annual flu vaccinations are available. I'm assuming the same will apply here if covid persists , and it appears it will. With it being so adapted to this warmer weather it probably won't go anywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #82 ·
What made you think you needed a covid shot to begin with ?

I can't remember a year in my life that they didnt announce when annual flu vaccinations are available. I'm assuming the same will apply here if covid persists , and it appears it will. With it being so adapted to this warmer weather it probably won't go anywhere.
Extreme pressure from my family is what is driving the decision for covid vaccine, not out of some need or fear of it, especially knowing that I have had it already. They are insisting that even if you have had covid, that you 100% need to still have a vaccine. I'm just trying to understand if that is really true.

As far as the flu, we are constantly told that this isnt the same as the flu, and I agree.
If it isnt the same, how do we know we dont need MORE than the annual vaccination? What I wonder is, at first they were saying that immunity, either from natural or vaccine induced may only last 6 months. Is that still true?
 

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Biology nit wit exposer
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I wasnt comparing it to the flu. I was comparing how the system informs us when vaccinations are available and needed.
 
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Oh and , I would have already gotten mine except the local system for getting one still requires pre-registration and an appointment time.

You want to know how it winds up in places it seems unlikely. Here we are this far in and they haven't developed a walk in system for vaccinations for people like me who travel extensively. Makes little sense to not vaccinate high risk vectors that travel to aid a wider spread. Wtf.
 

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Discussion Starter · #85 ·
I wasnt comparing it to the flu. I was comparing how the system informs us when vaccinations are available and needed.
Fair enough, but they have no idea? I realize its new so maybe nobody knows.
 

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Discussion Starter · #86 ·
Oh and , I would have already gotten mine except the local system for getting one still requires pre-registration and an appointment time.

You want to know how it winds up in places it seems unlikely. Here we are this far in and they haven't developed a walk in system for vaccinations for people like me who travel extensively. Makes little sense to not vaccinate high risk vectors that travel to aid a wider spread. Wtf.
That really surprises me. I could get in the car and drive 1.5 miles right now without an appt and walk right in/get the vaccine, no problem and probably no waiting. They are widely available now, no waiting. I think we have reached the threshold of people wanting and people not wanting the vaccine and I always thought that it would be about like the flu, about half the people get a flu shot on average.
Maybe vaccine availability is not the same in rural areas I guess.. or your area.. Chillicothe is vaccinating people no waiting and in fact, had to turn away vaccines rather than people because they didnt have enough interest.
 

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just a no body
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from what 'm gathering from the local Columbia news is that the mass vaccination spots at least in Boone County are going to stop in preference to the small clinics evolving into just going to the DR's office. Trouble is from what I gather is that the vaccine has shelf life and it is a worry that much will go to waste. In regards to Todd's issue if he were to drive to Columbia or other local municipalities he could walk in as it seems every night the news has bulletins on who has what when .

In your situation Paul we are in much the same hole in regards to family being pretty far left and most like everything Fauci say is Gospel, They are all vaccinated but next time there will be a family gathering I am sure my wife and I wil be pressed nto getting one. They wont like my answer and they damed sure wont like my wife's
 

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Discussion Starter · #88 ·
Its a shame. Most of those people say my body, my choice. Tell them that and they immediately say you might kill somebody. With the my body, my choice, killing someone is the purpose. Just ironic to me.


for the record, I am pro choice for the most part. Late term ugliness is what offends me about it. Seems like there could be a compromise, but compromises are few and far between regarding far left and far right people.
Shame.
 
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They don't cost the receiver, but you're right, they're not free. Which is why the full court press, if not enough people sign up & take the shot, then who's not getting paid like promised? I expect the tinfoil hat meme for this comment.
Actually, they do cost us, just not when it's stuck in an arm. They cost us when someone else gets them, dies, and their family files a lawsuit (because that's what people do in 2021). The tax payers foot the bill for that crap because the same government pushing these miracle drugs, sponsored a bill to make the big Pharm companies immune to the lawsuits and the tax dollars paying for them pay the same people who took them...

So to your point, nothing is free.
 

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It's a short matter of time until this is mandated. It will start (already has) with places like colleges and evolve into workplaces and ultimately everyone. Don't let them think for you. Use the strongest part of your body between your ears!
 

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That really surprises me. I could get in the car and drive 1.5 miles right now without an appt and walk right in/get the vaccine, no problem and probably no waiting. They are widely available now, no waiting. I think we have reached the threshold of people wanting and people not wanting the vaccine and I always thought that it would be about like the flu, about half the people get a flu shot on average.
Maybe vaccine availability is not the same in rural areas I guess.. or your area.. Chillicothe is vaccinating people no waiting and in fact, had to turn away vaccines rather than people because they didnt have enough interest.
I think its because of lower volume because of population size creating vaccine waste. Chilli is in an emergency situation right now so they are probably making an exception to the waste . 02.
 

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Discussion Starter · #92 ·
I think its because of lower volume because of population size creating vaccine waste. Chilli is in an emergency situation right now so they are probably making an exception to the waste . 02.
Livingston county also may be a bit gunshy as they thought everyone would want the vaccine before, ordered a bunch and only about 10% of what they thought they would need even got used... same with linn co. What I heard anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #93 ·
It's a short matter of time until this is mandated. It will start (already has) with places like colleges and evolve into workplaces and ultimately everyone. Don't let them think for you. Use the strongest part of your body between your ears!
My wife works very closely with HIPPA law and they are saying that mandating this as a condition of employment is a violation and would easily be beaten back.
That is a slippery slope also. They going to ask if I have diabetes on a job application and turn me down if I do?
 

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I have an appointment at 2 hospitals. I find it kind of interesting that we are required to provide evidence of the annual flu vaccine to either or. Furthermore, each year it seems that folks had better have a good explanation if they opt out.

I'm kind of thinking we may go down this same road where it is that I work.
 

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My wife works very closely with HIPPA law and they are saying that mandating this as a condition of employment is a violation and would easily be beaten back.
That is a slippery slope also. They going to ask if I have diabetes on a job application and turn me down if I do?
as does mine..her employer is is a fortune 500 company and owns A LOT of Hospitals is encouraging the vaccination but has yet to mandate it..probably because they went to remote working from home for many of the employees. Here an article in regards to Mandating Vaccination by employers going to court
Lawsuits mushroom as workers test employers’ right to mandate COVID-19 vaccination
A growing number of workers hesitant about taking the COVID-19 vaccine are taking their bosses to court.
The swift adoption of synthetic biological ****tails to combat the pandemic, developed and scaled for human injection at record pace, is at the heart of an increasing number of lawsuits from workers. They argue that submitting to a novel drug to combat a still-mysterious virus shouldn’t be a condition of keeping their jobs.
In one of the latest lawsuits, 117 unvaccinated Texas hospital workers contend that their employer, The Methodist Hospital, is violating federal law and state public policy by firing workers over their refusal to take the vaccine, which still lacks full regulatory approval.
“The abbreviated timelines for the emergency use applications and authorizations means there is much the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) does not know about these products even as it authorizes them for emergency use, including their effectiveness against infection, death, and transmission of SARS-CoV-2…” the lawsuit states.
Houston Methodist did not respond to Yahoo Finance’s request for comment. According to the Washington Post, the hospital group’s president, Marc Boo, likened its COVID-19 vaccine mandate to flu vaccine mandates, saying health-care institutions can legally require them.
The Texas plaintiffs argue that COVID-19 vaccinations are specifically unlike flu vaccines, because they have undergone clinical trials resulting in full FDA approval.
Similar concerns have been introduced in suits pending in California, North Carolina, New Mexico. Legal threats from workers in Wisconsin, and students whose universities are excluding unvaccinated individuals from their campuses, are upping the ante as businesses prepare to call remote workers back to the offices.
Yet critics of the lawsuits highlight that the filings are the works of lawyers known to have advocated against vaccinations — and point out that immunology experts have pushed back on the plaintiff’s characterization of Pfizer-BioNTech’s (PFE) and Moderna’s (MRNA) mRNA vaccines as “gene modification injections.”
However, no controversy exists over the lawsuits’ central underlying facts. Plaintiffs hope they can use that to challenge prevailing legal thought: current vaccines are limited to use on an emergency basis (EUA), and their full FDA approval remains contingent upon results of yet-to-be concluded clinical trials.


According to the workers in Texas, a federal law that governs EUAs should preempt state and local laws that impose different or additional requirements on medical products under the authorization.
Under federal law, individuals must be given the option to accept or refuse any medical products limited to EUA, including COVID-19 vaccines, and must be advised of the vaccines’ known and unknown benefits and risks. Houston Methodist provided neither, they claim.
According to Matthew Bodie, a professor of law for St. Louis University and an expert on employee privacy law, the statute is silent on whether private employers must extend the same protections as the federal government. As a result, the plaintiffs’ augment may be tenuous but perhaps not impossible, Bodie told Yahoo Finance.
The argument is difficult “because the connection is not direct — there’s nothing in the law that specifically says private employers cannot require EUA vaccines,” Bodie said. “So there has to be kind of a leap from the federal EUA provision...to private employers.”
He added: “Telling the government it can’t do something is not the same as telling private employers,” — emphasizing why legal experts have largely concluded that private employers are at liberty to create their own vaccination rules.
And the theory faces additional challenges.
According to recently updated federal EEOC guidelines, requiring vaccines for employees who are physically entering the workplace does not violate federal employment laws, so long as employers comply with the accommodation provisions of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and Title VII, Aaron Holt, a board certified labor & employment attorney with Cozen O’Connor, said.
Still, a Texas court could hold differently, Bodie said.
“There’s a possibility the Texas court will say, ‘Under Texas law, we believe that there is a public policy here...that there should be an exception to the employment at will doctrine,’” the expert said. Alternatively, the court could adopt a separate theory that extends protections to unvaccinated workers, Bodie added.
University of California Hastings College of the Law professor, Dorit Rubinstein Reiss, described the EUA statute a “wrinkle.” Referencing Rutgers University students who object to the school’s mandatory vaccine policy, she told Inside Higher Ed that while the outcome of a challenge to the statute is not certain, the school’s policy stood on firm legal ground.
Another uncertainty is whether courts will consider the Centers for Disease Control’s (CDC) data in weighing whether workers and students who decline vaccination can be stripped of their jobs or education. According to the CDC, a small percentage but increasing number of fully vaccinated Americans have died from COVID-19-related illness.
Centers for Disease Control (CDC) data on Americans fully vaccinated for COVID-19 as of May 24, 2021.

Centers for Disease Control (CDC) data on Americans fully vaccinated for COVID-19 as of May 24, 2021.
As of April 26, among approximately 95 million fully vaccinated Americans — excluding deaths reported as asymptomatic or not related to the coronavirus — 112 reportedly died. Deaths among fully vaccinated Americans, excluding asymptomatic and non-COVID-19-related, increased to 183 as of May 10, when approximately 115 million Americans had received full vaccinations. As of May 24, the CDC said, the number climbed to 368, when approximately 130 million Americans were fully vaccinated. The agency's most recent data on more than 135 million fully vaccinated shows 447 deaths.
The CDC stopped monitoring all reported vaccine breakthrough cases as of May 1, to include only those cases resulting in hospitalization or death.
As part of their arguments, the workers’ lawsuits also stress that following World War II, allied nations agreed to adhere to the Nuremberg Code to prevent recurrence of tests performed by Nazi physicians on non-consenting individuals for malaria, epidemic jaundice, smallpox, and cholera.
The complaints go on to note the FDA’s characterization of the injections as “investigational products.”
 

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I’m not getting the vaccine. I have too many health issues to chance it.
They stopped testing it on animals because so many were dying from it. I just don’t want to take that chance. Quite a few years back I got their annual flu shot, 14 days later I had the full blown flu. I haven’t had one since and I haven’t had the flu at all even though I got exposed to it. I don’t trust this or any other government on anything and it doesn’t matter who is in office. I simply don’t trust them.
It’s just my opinion, but when has the government done anything correct? If they say I need something I’ll run the other way as fast as I can.
When did Gates become a scientist, doctor or medical “official?” Fauci has said one thing, done another and back-tracked so many times that I don’t believe anything out of his mouth.
The White House was asked if there would be any circumstance or time that they would fire Fauci and she immediately said No. Ok, so what if he was wrong and a lot of people died?
The other issue with this vaccine… If anyone gets it and you have any issues it causes, they can’t be held liable. None of them can be held liable. So, no thank you I’ll take my chances and trust God.
It’s just my opinion.
 

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Comments (10)Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals
View ORCID ProfileNabin K. Shrestha, Patrick C. Burke, Amy S. Nowacki, Paul Terpeluk, Steven M. Gordon
doi: Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals
This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.


ABSTRACT
Background The purpose of this study was to evaluate the necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2.
Methods Employees of the Cleveland Clinic Health System working in Ohio on Dec 16, 2020, the day COVID-19 vaccination was started, were included. Any subject who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 at least 42 days earlier was considered previously infected. One was considered vaccinated 14 days after receipt of the second dose of a SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccine. The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection over the next five months, among previously infected subjects who received the vaccine, was compared with those of previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated, previously uninfected subjects who received the vaccine, and previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated.
Results Among the 52238 included employees, 1359 (53%) of 2579 previously infected subjects remained unvaccinated, compared with 22777 (41%) of 49659 not previously infected. The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection remained almost zero among previously infected unvaccinated subjects, previously infected subjects who were vaccinated, and previously uninfected subjects who were vaccinated, compared with a steady increase in cumulative incidence among previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated. Not one of the 1359 previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated had a SARS-CoV-2 infection over the duration of the study. In a Cox proportional hazards regression model, after adjusting for the phase of the epidemic, vaccination was associated with a significantly lower risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection among those not previously infected (HR 0.031, 95% CI 0.015 to 0.061) but not among those previously infected (HR 0.313, 95% CI 0 to Infinity).
Conclusions Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination, and vaccines can be safely prioritized to those who have not been infected before.
Summary Cumulative incidence of COVID-19 was examined among 52238 employees in an American healthcare system. COVID-19 did not occur in anyone over the five months of the study among 2579 individuals previously infected with COVID-19, including 1359 who did not take the vaccine.
Competing Interest Statement
The authors have declared no competing interest.
Funding Statement
There was no funding for this study.
Author Declarations
I confirm all relevant ethical guidelines have been followed, and any necessary IRB and/or ethics committee approvals have been obtained.
Yes
The details of the IRB/oversight body that provided approval or exemption for the research described are given below:
The study was approved by the Cleveland Clinic Institutional Review Board. A waiver of informed consent and waiver of HIPAA authorization were approved to allow access to personal health information by the research team, with the understanding that sharing or releasing identifiable data to anyone other than the study team was not permitted without additional IRB approval.
All necessary patient/participant consent has been obtained and the appropriate institutional forms have been archived.
Yes
I understand that all clinical trials and any other prospective interventional studies must be registered with an ICMJE-approved registry, such as ClinicalTrials.gov. I confirm that any such study reported in the manuscript has been registered and the trial registration ID is provided (note: if posting a prospective study registered retrospectively, please provide a statement in the trial ID field explaining why the study was not registered in advance).
Yes
I have followed all appropriate research reporting guidelines and uploaded the relevant EQUATOR Network research reporting checklist(s) and other pertinent material as supplementary files, if applicable.
Yes
 

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Discussion Starter · #98 ·
Thanks @WBF I think we are learning more and more each day on this thing.
 
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EEOC already stated that Federal law allows employers to mandate vaccination. Just like any mandate though, there are plenty of loopholes and they must accommodate according to ADA and religious reasons. I'm no lawyer but we have been monitoring this closely as a small business to ensure we play by the right rules. I'd imagine most lawsuits will be centered around reasonable accommodations for those not getting vaccinated. It is also a bit trickier since the "vaccine" is still not yet FDA approved. We have no plans of mandating it, but we have clients that will mandate staff on site be vaccinated, that makes things difficult.
EEOC Issues New Guidance for Mandatory and Voluntary COVID-19 Vaccine Programs
 

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just a no body
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EEOC already stated that Federal law allows employers to mandate vaccination. Just like any mandate though, there are plenty of loopholes and they must accommodate according to ADA and religious reasons. I'm no lawyer but we have been monitoring this closely as a small business to ensure we play by the right rules. I'd imagine most lawsuits will be centered around reasonable accommodations for those not getting vaccinated. It is also a bit trickier since the "vaccine" is still not yet FDA approved. We have no plans of mandating it, but we have clients that will mandate staff on site be vaccinated, that makes things difficult.
EEOC Issues New Guidance for Mandatory and Voluntary COVID-19 Vaccine Programs
and in there lies the catch
 
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