2017 TURKEY BROOD REPORT provide some food for thought.

Discussion in 'Turkey Hunting General' started by hazelvillebucks, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    Id suggest you do more research on the subhect. If you dont understand after reading Im probably not going to be able to explain it... bur, if you are surr youre right Id suggest getting a grant, setting uo your study area with controls and trying to prove the 100s of studies onbthe subject wrong.
     
  2. DCSarchette

    DCSarchette Well-Known Member

    840
    Oct 6, 2016
    Bland, Mo.
    Your typing isn't your norm, settle down, and enjoy the concept of "common sense". Your right, your not going to convince me that an obvious oxymoron isn't one, simply because you don't want it to be. Your also not going to convince me that something doesn't happen, that I have witnessed all my life will, regardless of any "scientific" bias studies. I am not going to waste grant money that could be used possibly for a good cause, to try and prove common sense-- as not. That would border on an oxymoron, don't think they give grants for that, although they may, seeing some they have.
     

  3. hazelvillebucks

    hazelvillebucks Well-Known Member

    Oct 28, 2014
    it was removal of 200,000 coon statewide in 10 out of 20 years. in only 3 out of the 20 years did coon harvest exceed 150,000. We Are now to the point that it takes 5 years to remove 200,00 coon. Asyou should beabe toseemy now that years turkey hatch will be toast except in areas where private land owners have taken it upon them selves to live a life with less coons destroying everything.Why do you think that with one years work one can get the nesting success and hen to pout ratio that has been impossible to get for a quarter of a century ? Why to you think that the area where nothing is done are stuck in a place where recruitment does match mortality? The reason is because THOSE CHARTS ARE FULL OF LONG TERM DATA AND THE NUMBERS DO OT LIE.Do what the charts say to do and watch the plight of the turkey turn on a dime.
     
  4. hazelvillebucks

    hazelvillebucks Well-Known Member

    Oct 28, 2014
    ALL OF YOU PATHETIC MYTHS ARE BUSTED.
     
  5. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    Its not an oxymoron. Its not a contradiction. Targeting 1 specific animal at the spot where it has learned to get food and steal from the farmer is VERY effective. Targeting random animals out in the wild is not effective. The same reason when a bear gets into peoples houses etc out west they dont go trapping all over the mountain, they start trapping where they can catch that EXACT bear and remove it.

    What exactly have you seen happen all your life???
     
  6. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    Nope.
     
  7. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    Wrong. Show the study where the trapping ended Jan 31.... lmao
     
  8. DCSarchette

    DCSarchette Well-Known Member

    840
    Oct 6, 2016
    Bland, Mo.
    Why do you only read what you want to hear? I have seen killing predators cause a rise in their preys numbers all my life. Not saying habitat doesn't help it does. Killing a target predator does exactly what you said, gets rid of that predator. My grandpa bought the farm I was raised on when my Dad was 7. At that time there was predators stealing stock, they were disposed of, guess what? They are still stealing stock almost 9 decades later if allowed the opportunity. The coyote that was shot last week while feeding hay 2 40's from the house doesn't have that opportunity. Again--common sense. Why does someone with your apparent intelligence have such an issue with common sense? Actually your stance on the obvious given oxymoron, has be questioning that.
     
  9. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    Because coyotes defy common common sense.
     
  10. DCSarchette

    DCSarchette Well-Known Member

    840
    Oct 6, 2016
    Bland, Mo.
    Yes at times I have seen them exhibit this behavior as well.
     
  11. hazelvillebucks

    hazelvillebucks Well-Known Member

    Oct 28, 2014
    The choice is a hen nesting success rate of 35 percent or over twice that. a hen to pout ratio of 1.1 or 3.57. the coon not only missed beig there to suck the eggs the population s now young and 2/3 male. THE COON WILL HAVE LITTLE BETTER LUCK AT REPRODUCTION THEN THE TURKEY DID WHEN THOSE WITH THE EGGS ARE REMOVED.
     
  12. 20'

    20' Well-Known Member

    Aug 9, 2017
    Doublingvthe youth season would be the same as the regular season!!! Wow
     
  13. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    So, where is the study?
     
  14. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    And it wasnt an issue in youth...
     
  15. hazelvillebucks

    hazelvillebucks Well-Known Member

    Oct 28, 2014
    The unanswered question what is wrong with the turkey? had been asked since 1989. The long standing answer its the weather stupid did not explain what us in the north east experienced, neither did habitat , bobcats , eagles, natural limiting factors etc.
    THEN ALMOST THREE YEARS AGO MY BROTHER IN LAW WAS SENT THE HISTORICAL DATA ON FUR HARVEST DATING BACK TO 1934. one short look and i knew the smoking gun had appeared gift wrapped in the proof. SINCE THAT TIME THE HISTORICAL DATA ON THE TURKEY HAVE BEEN COMPARED TO THE INFORMATION ON THE CHIEF EGG SUCKING OUT OF CONTROL PEST AND IT MATCHES ALL THE WAY UP AS IT WILL IN REVERSE ALL THE WAY DOWN.
    YOU FOR YOUR PART HAVE COME UP WITH ANY EXCUSE POSSIBLE TO DENY THE OBVIOUS THAT IS SUPPORTED BY FACT THAT SHOWS IT IS WHAT THE NUMBERS SAY IT IS. No hawk coon can be set back 28 years n a years time and no HAWK OTHERS WILL NOT APPEAR IN TIME TO SUCK THE EGGS. when they do appear the numbers will be 2/3 male and over 2/3 yearlings.Not the make up that will allow the coon to over come with out a pause in the 28 year uptick.
    YOU like to make biologists out to be fools, IF they did indeed believe the bs you spout they would indeed be fools but then again Missouri has lost over 75 percent of its turkey.It is s far a fact that no one that has adjusted the obvious problem when it comes to the turkey has had anything but the obvious result from doing so. How can that be if the real problem is the lame excuses you give?
     
  16. Mikeh1968

    Mikeh1968 New Member

    12
    Mar 11, 2018
    First off a lot of the fur bearer data is not correct. A lot of trappers don't sell to Missouri fur buyers, so numbers are not recorded. I trap around 500-600 coon a year and who knows how many possums within a 5 mile radius of my house, every year population never changes unless of disease. We use to have a lot of turkey's now you can't hardly see one. My point is predators are part of the problem but I feel only a small part.
     
  17. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    EXACTLY....
     
  18. henry

    henry Fan Boy aka Mr Twisty and

    You mau not be trapping enough. 550 out of 25 square miles isn't many . I took around 50 coons off of a 1/4 section in 2016 season. With the same trapping effort I only caught around 15 in the 2017 season.
     
  19. Mikeh1968

    Mikeh1968 New Member

    12
    Mar 11, 2018
    I just think there are other reasons the turkey population has crashed. Disease, habitat loss, gmo crops, I don't know, but it doesn't seem like anyone is looking for the reason. At first MDC always blamed it on the weather, but it can't be bad every year
     
  20. henry

    henry Fan Boy aka Mr Twisty and

    It is likely a combination of things. But the Mdc does think that increasing nest predator numbers are playing a role in it.