2017 TURKEY BROOD REPORT provide some food for thought.

Discussion in 'Turkey Hunting General' started by hazelvillebucks, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. henry

    henry Fan Boy aka Mr Twisty and

    Good post Dcsarchett. And probably very accurate too. The animal rights folks like one or two who post here are trying to convince people that all predators fall from the sky upon removal so it doesn't do any good to kill the poor things. Lol
     
    DCSarchette likes this.
  2. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    So now state biologist that are avid hunters and trappers themselves are jist covert animal rights activists????? This keeps getting better and better!!!!!!
     

  3. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    DCSarchette,

    Heres a food article from someone from your generation (I assume, he may be older) about this. Hes an MDC biologist, and has a very different view.

    The Bounty Hunter | Missouri Department of Conservation
    https://mdc.mo.gov/blogs/more-quail/bounty-hunter
     
  4. henry

    henry Fan Boy aka Mr Twisty and

    Animal rights people are everywhere. We have one real vocal one on this site. Lol.
     
  5. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    Hazelville is a pretty staunch PETA guy... theres also a truck driver that is extremely committed to preventing as many people as possible, especially kids, from killing any turkeys but will do the killing himself. Classic PETA/ASPCA actions by that fella...
     
  6. henry

    henry Fan Boy aka Mr Twisty and

    Don't shoot the poor coyotes or coons or opossums they self regulate. Lol. Jeezus.
     
  7. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    I woukd challenge anyone to find anywhere that anyone has said "dont shoot coyotes or coons, and dont trap"....

    I believe what has been said was "if you are shooting coyotes to prevent some of their predation on fawns and poults you should concentrate on late spring and early summer for your efforts. Any other time of the year will just be a waste. If you simply enjoy shooting coyotes, raccoons, or trapping continue to do these activities, they are EXCELLENT recreation."
     
  8. hazelvillebucks

    hazelvillebucks Well-Known Member

    Oct 28, 2014
    i am a lot of things but that is not one of them. THE GREAT OLD MDC STARTED COLLECTING DATA BEFORE MDC WAS EVEN OFFICIALLY BORN.i
     
  9. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    Huh? MDC gathered data in utero? Or was it a sperm??
     
  10. 20'

    20' Well-Known Member

    Aug 9, 2017
    Sing me up for peta on the turkey issue. And to point out, during youth the kiddos can hunt all day.
     
  11. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    And the sky didnt fall......
     
  12. hazelvillebucks

    hazelvillebucks Well-Known Member

    Oct 28, 2014
    Hawk i will let your bs swing in the wind for now. WHEN THE KEY PAD HAS A MIND OF ITS OWN MORE THAN JUST THE CAP KEY GETS ADJUSTED.
    SCIENCE IS CAUSE AND EFFECT. the reason for the loss of 75 percent of the turkey statewide and more in the ag north is because of the constantly increasing variable of egg suckers gone wild. SCIENCE IS CAUSE AND EFFECT , THE NUMBERS SHOW IN DETAIL CAUSE AND EFFECT. When the story of the reintroduction of the wild turkey is told it will include the final chapter reversing on a dime the over sight of the now last 29 years.
     
  13. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    We havent lost 75% of the turkey. Thats nonsense.

    Im sorry your diamond shoes are to tight......
     
  14. hazelvillebucks

    hazelvillebucks Well-Known Member

    Oct 28, 2014
    Reality does not appear to be your friend.Just like the other things you distort and fail to understand. No one from mdc Denys we have a real problem with the out of control egg sucking coon.The numbers do not lie. a turkey study with out coon density quantified is like a sandwich with out bread.
     
  15. hazelvillebucks

    hazelvillebucks Well-Known Member

    Oct 28, 2014
    Over the course of the last several years A. S. G. hunters from across the state have give us there beliefs of what turkey season should be.I think the most pressing change needed is a split season starting earlier in the south and ending later in the north.
    As far as Hawks wanting to further dissipate the remainder of the turkey up here i say HELL NO.Correct the problem of the out of control egg sucker first. Quality turkey hunting is hunting birds with some age. Killing jakes and 2 year olds does not cut it.The good news is that even on small properties the land you control can take the fork in the road that will lead to great turkey hunting in smaller areas.
     
  16. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009
    Hazels Diamond shoes are still to tight.
     
  17. DCSarchette

    DCSarchette Well-Known Member

    624
    Oct 6, 2016
    Bland, Mo.
    Hawk--- I do believe your heart is in the right place, and your dedicated to your cause. I don't think you are an animal rights person, per se. I did research on this article, and the author, Bill White. He is a wildlife biologist, and Private land services division chief, for MDC. His age is bouncing around mine, I think younger, but wouldn't matter if he was raised on concrete. There is an old saying. "compare apples to apples, and oranges to oranges". I do think he has a bias opinion, due to his position (paycheck) with the MDC, and their desires to have control of as much acreage as they can that they don't already own. Yes they have a lot of good, helpful, informative programs, but what is their actual intents? In my opinion their "mission" has changed considerable from fins, feathers, and furs, to finances over the decades since their first inception, which I understand to a point. In your own article there is an "oxymoron", which is common in scientific studies. IE ( They determined it was "effective" in reducing problem-causing coyotes, but was too expensive for the counties to continue and "did nothing" to reduce the overall coyote population). Science says a bumble bee can't fly, ever tried to out run one? Common sense should dictate, not to disturb a nest to find out. Thus the difference between science and common sense.The "majority", and concentrated efforts of these articles are for the restoration of pheasants, and quail, mostly quail, not turkeys, (don't quote me where they said wildlife, when I called attention to the word "majority"). I talk the rule, not the exception, although I know there is some. Common sense does dictate that if one "dead" coon doesn't eat one egg, and should that one egg hatch, it has contributed to the poult count. Not to mention if that one poult that hatched from that one egg the "dead" coon didn't eat should live to multiply it has contributed even more to the poult count, especially if that dead yote didn't catch it, regardless of habitat.
     
  18. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member Sponsor

    Oct 15, 2009

    That's actually not an oxymoron or a contradiction. If you have a problem coyote that has identified sheep, chickens, etc as a food source it is very effective to target that specific coyote, eliminate him and eliminate the problem. It wouldnt be effective to try to mitigate the problem by going out into the woods and trying to trap every coyote in a section. Thats the difference.

    Bumblebees not being able to fly is a myth, just like trapping coyote will lower the population....

    Screenshot_20180117-150106.jpg Screenshot_20180117-150200.jpg


    Put one dozen eggs on a golf coyrse and see how many coons it takes to eat them all... I guarantee it will be 1... put those eggs in chest high warm season grass and 2 dozen coons wont find them all. Thats the point.

    Bill White has no motivation to lie. His motivation id to help landowners maximize their time and expenditures. Thats it.
     
  19. DCSarchette

    DCSarchette Well-Known Member

    624
    Oct 6, 2016
    Bland, Mo.
    I don't stand corrected on the bumble bee, I already knew. I cast a line and you sunk the bobber. Bumble bees just flap harder, and their wings back and forth in a figure 8 motion, instead of up and down. A scientist in 1934 started that myth, which was later proved wrong. I appreciate your dedication to research. There is some truth to your claims on habitat, thus the reason it isn't a myth, unlike the bumble bee. Yes it is effective to concentrate on a specific predator. The sentence is an oxymoron, and there is a reason moron is in the term, (No pun or direction intended). Science, and you imply when I rid that certain predator, my worries is over. Common sense implies that when I go bluegill fishing, and that predator bluegill eats it's prey (the worm), not to go home with one fish---there is usually more. Do more research, and explain to me how the resulting actions of "effective" and "did nothing", used in the same sentence, on the same subject,by the same inity, isn't an oxymoron. You can have a black, white, or black and white horse, you can not ride or not ride any one of the three at once. This is three subjects with only one possible action of the two submitted. Explain to me how with one subject, with two possible actions (effective &did nothing) stated in the same sentence as a result, isn't an oxymoron. When you give your significant other that romantic wink after supper, ask yourself the next morning, if it was effective, or did nothing.
     
  20. rcg

    rcg Member

    494
    Nov 2, 2013
    "Put one dozen eggs on a golf coyrse and see how many coons it takes to eat them all... I guarantee it will be 1... put those eggs in chest high warm season grass and 2 dozen coons wont find them all. Thats the point."

    :yap2::yap2::yap2::yap2::yap2::yap2::yap2::yap2::yap2::yap2::yap2:

    Very twisted perspective on reality. Maybe they won't find ALL the eggs/nests in your "perfect" habitat. However, I can guarantee you with 100% certainty that two dozen coons will find more of those eggs/nests than 3,4,5,6, pick a number coons would in the same "perfect" habitat. With less coons looking there will ultimately be less eggs/nests found and more eggs hatch and more turkeys grow up to produce more turkeys in subsequent years. I will agree, better habitat is a good thing that can help and good habitat will ultimately produce more turkeys than poor habitat will given all other parameters being equal............ that should pretty dang obvious and I would hope it doesn't take and "expert" with a fancy degree and letters after their name to figure that out. But saying less coons won't help the hatch is just about like saying $1 is the same as $1,000 and you can buy equal things with either amount. It's impossible. More coons (skunks, possums) means more turkey nests get destroyed which means less turkeys. PERIOD.

    You absolutely don't have a clue as to how much trapping was going on when the turkey numbers were at the peak. That trapping most certainly did help the turkey numbers. It doesn't take a supposed genius/expert/authority on the subject to figure out the two issues are directly related. But then, I shouldn't expect much when you also think April flooding and cold won't impact the hatch either. (Or, how you say only 1 gobbler out of every 978 or something like that lives past 2 years old.)

    The increased number of predators certainly has and will continue to do nothing but hurt the hatch across the board.......... whether that be in good, medium or poor habitat. And that situation is compounded by the extremely poor April and early May weather following a very early warm-up that has become typical in the spring.
     
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