100 yard Trend..........

Discussion in 'Crossbows' started by WBF, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. WBF

    WBF Wolf Brook Farms

    Oct 25, 2013
    I've been following the recent developments at ATA regarding the new crossbow offerings. Multiple manufacturers have been toting this 100 yd accuracy claim. I've been a outspoken voice for the inclusion of crossbows to MO archery season. That being said I truly hope that the newly recruited firearms/crossbow hunter doesn't take these claims to heart. It's possible that an accuracy claim isn't the same as suggesting that an individual attempt a shot on a game animal at these types of extended yardages. Sure would be nice to witness these reps follow up their 100 yd accuracy claim with a statement that involves real world hunting scenarios. That's All !

    Bob/20ft fire away! I've got broad shoulders! And I'll admit you brought this up in the past and ultimately we're banned for it.
     
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  2. henry

    henry Fan Boy aka Mr Twisty and

    People can shoot well past a sensible yardage with anything they shoot. Many 3d courses have promoted long shots over the years. That's why the mds shoots I've attended have been my favorite ones. The guys who have set them up always kept the targets at sensible hunting shot ranges.
     

  3. DonJuan

    DonJuan Well-Known Member

    Jan 30, 2012
    S.E. Mo.
    I’m waiting for next years model I’m sure it will shoot 200 yards with heat seeking arrows that attracts to the beat of a heart
     
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  4. 20'

    20' Well-Known Member

    Aug 9, 2017
    It's all good, but most hunter's, especially the ones the xguns will be targeting aren't the brightest and definitely not the remotely woods savvy! It is embarrassing that the one xgun is promoting 200 yards accuracy, and Henry spins it as,.... blah blah blah! I was never against against anyone who previously bowhunting switching to xgun! However, a Richard head firearms hunter not willing to try a compound was an issue in my mind!!

    The are far easier to hunt with and provide a distinct advantage.

    I know coyotehunter mentioned hitting a tree or what not, that still happens with a vertical bow! Xgun are not heavy nor cumbersome, they are easier to kill with. Don't lie, that is all!
     
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  5. ducksNbucks

    ducksNbucks Senior Member

    Mar 13, 2011
    Lathrop, MO
    Yeah, they're not going to say it's accurate to 100 but you should only take shots inside of 40.
     
  6. Sully

    Sully Bait Plotter Extraordinar

    Aug 28, 2007
    Truman lake , MO
    Putting my opinion of Xbows aside ... having been inside the the archery industry most all my life I can tell you REPs ( in general ) are bottom feeders . I know a few who are stand up guy but as a whole they are used car salesmen pushing archery equipment , they say anything they have to to SELL and in most cases have little or no real world knowledge of what they are talking about just abunch of slicks interested in nothing but their commissions !
     
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  7. EZRA

    EZRA Well-Known Member

    Jul 8, 2016
    I bought a mission crossbow and my dad loved it he used it and well I tried carrying it once to the stand and didn't like packing it in or packing it out and then having to shoot it haha. When I'm in a tree there is nothing like grabbing the compound bow and coming to full draw but yea while in the tree the crkss bujow is a point and shoot lots easier but not my pick
     
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  8. hazelvillebucks

    hazelvillebucks Well-Known Member

    Oct 28, 2014
    ACTUALLY Raven is already touting the 200 yard dream.we will see years of the battling bullet points, what will be slow to come is the attributes that will make them the fine tool a hunter needs.If the x bow was a finer bow , if like the in line mussel loader it solves some serious reliability problems. But it is not those things it is what it looks lie a scheme to cheat hard working people of there hard earned bucks. That is all it is.
    MDC CAN UNDO SOME OF THE DAMAGE THEYHAVE DONE BY ALLOWING THE DEVICES ALLOWING A REG. COMPOUND TO BE USED WITHA DEVICE KEEPING THEM AT FULL DRAW. B.C. Before Cram down a hunter with physical need could of oped for that choice which allows the problem of noise and tun ability to be adjusted.The situation we are in now is like having the racoon guard the turkey nests.
     
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  9. ILoveDeer

    ILoveDeer Member

    91
    Dec 10, 2017
    Whatever happened to supporting all legal means of hunting?? 20 you are making it sound that all crossbow shooters are stupid. I truly hope that is not what you are saying. I started hunting with a longbow and then moved to a recurve, then to a compound bow. You sure sound like the traditionalists when compounds first came out. Yelling that people were going to shoot out to 40 yards, and wound all the animals. And that sights on a compound was like shooting a gun. Watch the outdoor channels and you see people every day shooting at animals from 50 yards out to 100 yards every day with their compounds. And as for people not shooting a compound before they switch to a crossbow is just stupid thinking. My wife loves to bow hunt but never could pull back enough poundage for a ethical weight to shoot a animal. So I was so happy when Missouri finally ok’ed crossbows for archery season. She killed 2 deer and a gobbler under 25 yards after months of practicing with her crossbow. And it also allows my grandkids to bow hunt with their papa and dad. After months of practice. I get so tired of all this righteous crap about the way someone hunts. Just my 2 cents worth!!!
    Mark
     
  10. ILoveDeer

    ILoveDeer Member

    91
    Dec 10, 2017
    And no I do not condone shooting out to 100 yards!!!
    Mark
     
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  11. DCSarchette

    DCSarchette Well-Known Member

    843
    Oct 6, 2016
    Bland, Mo.
    Mark, why don't you tell us how you "really feel" lol just a jokin and agree with what you said, and understand every action. I'm sure 20 means well, but there is something about beating a dead horse, that at times seems to be the case with those that are very dedicated to their beliefs. But at times that dead horse can kick ya out of the barn. I personally don't think a 100 yard shot today is ethical, but in time with these things, I am sure it will be, look at black powder.
     
  12. WBF

    WBF Wolf Brook Farms

    Oct 25, 2013
    I didn't want to turn this into a crossbow inclusion debate. Crossbows are part of the MO archery season regardless. The point that I'm attempting to make is the fact that 20ft/Bob made this prediction prior to inclusion. 20 ft/ kinda called this one. Sully alludes to it in his post. These reps are attempting to sell a crossbow to the "average" gun hunter by touting these 100 yard "accuracy" claims by playing on ignorance.

    Mark/I love deer.... 20 ft... is passionate in his beliefs. I've learned to really respect his forethought/vision on this topic. And to be honest it was one of the reasons for this post. He seen this coming... the idea that a crossbow would be marketed and sold as a 100 plus yard weapon. Anyone that would consider purchasing a crossbow (and hunting with it like it was a rifle/firearm) for the purpose of taking a shot on a live animal at 100 yds is exactly what 20 ft defined them as being. A SLOB !!!The definition you gave in your post and how you and your family hunt with a crossbow is the intended definition of MO crossbow inclusion. You couldn't have defined it any better!! The challenge is how the crossbow is now being marketed. And Sully pretty much summed it up!
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
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  13. ILoveDeer

    ILoveDeer Member

    91
    Dec 10, 2017
    Hey DC,
    I can not tell you exactly how I feel or I will not be allowed on here anymore. It use to be you only took broad side shots and standing still. That was the ethical way of doing it, now you see them shooting from all directions and at moving targets. Heck watch Lee Lakoskiy he shoots deer at 65 yards and farther. Just all the ammo that these crazy animal rights activists need.
    Mark
     
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  14. WBF

    WBF Wolf Brook Farms

    Oct 25, 2013
    You make a very valid point. The issue is with the reps pushing the 100 yd accuracy claims. It seems they don't want to wait for the technology to catch up to their rhetoric. I don't believe there will come a day that a crossbow will reach the same FPS as a muzzleloader and retain the accuracy.

    To market a 100 yd device to gun hunters (which they are with these claims) is simply dishonest.
     
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  15. Sully

    Sully Bait Plotter Extraordinar

    Aug 28, 2007
    Truman lake , MO
    200 yds heck even 300 yds is not out of the realm of possibility nether is 500 fps with current technology that can be incorporated into modern Xbows ... it's simply a matter of increasing the power stroke ! You take a 200 pound bow with a 30 in draw and wala ! Taking the material improvements made over the years that have been incorporated into the compound bow industry ( limb design and material as well as string materials ) the above mentioned monster can very well be created ... Not something that would be a viable marketed to the public product but possible nonetheless .

    As to the argument that " it " shoots an arrow ( bolt ) so it's archery ... well I think that's a stretch by anyone's standards . Ruger several years ago made a GUN that you could load an arrow in and shoot ( wasn't on the market long ) but it was no more archery equipment than a Xbow ! However the powers that be have saw fit to say other wise so for now thing are what they are ... IMHO another industry driven gadget for hoard of desperate deer hunter searching for the next latest and greatest .

    If someone wants to hunt with a xbow more power to ya and knock yourself out aint no skin of my nose either way but I do not believe that "self identifying" as a woman if your really a Male or visa versa is any more valid then shooting equipment if it holds a draw and can be rested being called archery ! My opinion
     
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  16. WBF

    WBF Wolf Brook Farms

    Oct 25, 2013
    What would be a better mouse trap in your mind? I've read your thoughts on crossbows for awhile now and remain curious on what you would change ? From Safety to Dampening the shot of a crossbow..... describe to me the Hazelville Crossbow!????
     
  17. WBF

    WBF Wolf Brook Farms

    Oct 25, 2013
    All great points and agree with the majority of them . But back to what you alluded to in your initial post. Man only lies for two reasons--- personal gain and to make money$$$$$....
     
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  18. Sully

    Sully Bait Plotter Extraordinar

    Aug 28, 2007
    Truman lake , MO
    Back when I first opened my store I figured that industry people were as close knit as the general archery community ! What an eye opening experience to how naive I was ! I understand business is business but was shocked at the backstabbing , underhanded , double dealing ,two faced and bold outright lies mostly from reps but some manufactures also ( some big name companies ) Don't get me wrong I met some amazing people , John Musacchia Sr reminded me of my own grandfather I would sit for hours listening to his stories and philosophies on life a truly amazing man and someone I would have never met if I hadn't been in the industry and John Jr is still a close friend ... however the industry as a whole and even more recently with some TV hunting celebrities wanna bes showing their a$$es makes me want to puke ! They ( by their own doing ) have created an environment of celebrity endorsed " Have to have this to kill a deer or be cool " trending merchandise that is considered obsolete as a flip phone next year and a bunch of hucksters climbing over one another it get a piece of the pie.

    I could go on for hours on this subject but just let me say I'm glad to be out of that business
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
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  19. hazelvillebucks

    hazelvillebucks Well-Known Member

    Oct 28, 2014
    As i have stated to save my shoulder i used a state of the deceit x bow for i year.As i have stated the In Line MUSSEL LOADER AND THE COMPOUND BOW WERE BETTER MOUSE TRAPS, A BETTER TOOL TO DO THE JOB.
    I EXPLORED THAT CRITICAL PLACE WHERE THE BULLET MEETS THE BONE , OR FAILS TO.My conclusion is that some are skilled enough to take a ethical shot with a compound at 40 yards but it likely that with the x bow one might put the bolt where the target once was, but, the target will be far from that spot when the bolt of death arrives.
    Lets look at the stated reason for x bow cram down. TO RETAIN AND RECRUIT NEW HUNTERS ? so they take away the device allowing a bow hunter to continue hunting by using a device that will hold the compound at full draw?
    Their is zero reason for a bow to have to use 200 pounds of pull.With the multitudes of safety problems that brings.Power stroke? What the 3500 dollar x bows being pawed are is poorly designed bow for the next year wherein if you want a true tool to hunt with you buy the next great bullet points. ETC, ETC.
    At this point in time the situation arises that i can not use the fine tool compound that i use now, i will put the device on it so i can us it.Shame on MDC for driving another nail in their coffin of public support.Lonny Hansin worked hard to bring us better deer hunting we got CRAM DOWN instead.
    I am all for a better tool to hunt deer with , that is not what CRAM DOWN IS.
     
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  20. Sully

    Sully Bait Plotter Extraordinar

    Aug 28, 2007
    Truman lake , MO
    For the record the specs I listed were hypothetical however doable my point is that with advertised velocities already in the mid 400 FPS range you can bet that Xbow companies are looking for the next big advertising point and speed is ALWAYS a top one " WE ARE THE FASTEST " Easiest way to increase speed is increase power stroke = the amount of travel the arrow or bolt is in contact with the string OR if you will the longer the string pushes the arrow . That is why they came up with the reversed limb designs ( looks like the limbs are backwards ) this allows for a full 24 + inches of string travel as where in old designs string travel was only about 12 inches for a 24 in bolt . Increase rail length and they can get even more but the guy shooting it is going to have to mount the damn thing on wheels to get it to the stand .

    200 pound limbs ?? Why not lots of xbows already have cranking devices to cock them and many of the xbows on the market already come with 175 limb ... Heck if you can't kill anything at least you can brag you shoot a bow with 200 lbs limbs ! Believe me if the xbow companies think they can squeeze out another 10 FPS they will do it in a heartbeat ... if your gonna plop down 2500 bucks for a Xbow you don't want no dog , speed sells

    I know these people and how they think and you better believe that right now selling Xbows that have maybe 100 dollars of material in them for 2 grand is better than sex to them and they are going to milk this cash cow on all 4 tits as long as they can ! Mark my word you haven't seen anything yet because it's not about whether or not Xbows are a better mousetrap it's about making people think this is what they need !
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
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