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Old 07-17-2017, 08:35 PM   #401
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Yes they have.

You are leaving out the parts where it has worked.
It hasnt worked!!!!


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Old 07-17-2017, 08:41 PM   #402
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Ok, let me explain it to you since you can't seem to understand. YOU are the one telling Henry and others CONTINUOUSLY that their trapping didn't or won't help because more coons and possums quickly backfill the hole left after trapping season ended. I SAY some areas may rebound quicker but more often that not it takes a couple of seasons for the population to recover from overharvest, which is exactly what Henry intentionally did if you look at from a wildlife management perspective. He intentionally overharvested. In the meantime, there ARE fewer nest predators in the given area. True, even one coon could find every turkey nest on Henry's farm, the probability of every nest being found is far greater if there are 50 coons using the same area. Pretty sure most 6 year olds could comprehend that.

Very good explanation. It's wasted on hawk though. He mixes and matches bumblebee studies and anything he can find to not understand.


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Old 07-17-2017, 08:42 PM   #403
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It hasnt worked!!!!
Sure it has. That's why you are forced into desperate attempts at making excuses.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:02 PM   #404
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Sure it has. That's why you are forced into desperate attempts at making excuses.
Where??? After almost 2 years youve yet to:

1. Find a legitimate study that RECOMMENDS predator control on small acreage if it stops on Jan 31.

2. Find a professional to agree that your time spent trapping is more impactful than using the same amount of time on habitat.

3. Find a legitimate study where predator control has shown an increase in turkeys on small acreage.

Not one of those things have you found in 2 years of looking. Trust me, Im not the one thats desperate....
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:11 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by killmode View Post
Ok, let me explain it to you since you can't seem to understand. YOU are the one telling Henry and others CONTINUOUSLY that their trapping didn't or won't help because more coons and possums quickly backfill the hole left after trapping season ended. I SAY some areas may rebound quicker but more often that not it takes a couple of seasons for the population to recover from overharvest, which is exactly what Henry intentionally did if you look at from a wildlife management perspective. He intentionally overharvested. In the meantime, there ARE fewer nest predators in the given area. True, even one coon could find every turkey nest on Henry's farm, the probability of every nest being found is far greater if there are 50 coons using the same area. Pretty sure most 6 year olds could comprehend that.
I have urged Henry to apply the same trapping pressure (same duration, same number and type of traps, bait, etc) in future years. To me, this will be very telling. If he catches 90 next year, and 95 the year after, I'd be inclined to believe he is pis sing up a rope, although even temporary reductions of predators could make a difference in my mind, given that the reductions are made at a strategic time each year.
However, if he only catches 70 next year, and even less in subsequent years, I'd be inclined to believe he is making a difference.
I think it would be foolish to think he would ever get to a place where he wouldnt catch any, but turning the population of predators downward is always a good thing in my mind.
Your experience with "trapping out" a particular farm is real world experience also that IMO, should not be overlooked.

Bottom line, if him trapping this year and then seeing more poults is just a coincidence, ok. But if he continues to see the same returns on multiple years, I'm inclined to believe it is much less of a coincidence.
What say you Killmode?
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:26 PM   #406
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I have urged Henry to apply the same trapping pressure (same duration, same number and type of traps, bait, etc) in future years. To me, this will be very telling. If he catches 90 next year, and 95 the year after, I'd be inclined to believe he is pis sing up a rope, although even temporary reductions of predators could make a difference in my mind, given that the reductions are made at a strategic time each year.
However, if he only catches 70 next year, and even less in subsequent years, I'd be inclined to believe he is making a difference.
I think it would be foolish to think he would ever get to a place where he wouldnt catch any, but turning the population of predators downward is always a good thing in my mind.
Your experience with "trapping out" a particular farm is real world experience also that IMO, should not be overlooked.

Bottom line, if him trapping this year and then seeing more poults is just a coincidence, ok. But if he continues to see the same returns on multiple years, I'm inclined to believe it is much less of a coincidence.
What say you Killmode?
I expect him to catch less next year also. That's not really the question. The question is how many do you have to catch before there's not enough left over there won't be enough migrate in to still impact all those nests.? The answer is habitat dependent not number of predators dependent. It's hiding spaces versus Searchers and hiding places will always win out regardless of how many searches there are.

As far as more poults in subsequent years that really doesn't tell you much about the reasons for colds. We've had several stretches in the past where we've had excellent production on farms for many years in a row when there was absolutely no trapping. Something as simple as lack of a drought within a period of years could make a huge difference in numbers of pulse.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:47 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
Where??? After almost 2 years youve yet to:

1. Find a legitimate study that RECOMMENDS predator control on small acreage if it stops on Jan 31.

2. Find a professional to agree that your time spent trapping is more impactful than using the same amount of time on habitat.

3. Find a legitimate study where predator control has shown an increase in turkeys on small acreage.

Not one of those things have you found in 2 years of looking. Trust me, Im not the one thats desperate....
Sure you are. They removed predators and some cases it increased production. Your excuses as to timing and amount of acres don't hold water for anyone but you. You mix and match quail and bumblebee studies and try your best to say they apply as a means to your excuses. The fact is if you remove enough nest predators with small home ranges (coons , opossum ect) in an area there is no reason to think they will fill back in before nesting season is complete. That's because they don't travel much to find the void you created. Its just that simple. If circumstances are right and the predator you remove is the actual problem you could see positive effects. Bumblebee studies don't change that.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:54 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by rat View Post
I have urged Henry to apply the same trapping pressure (same duration, same number and type of traps, bait, etc) in future years. To me, this will be very telling. If he catches 90 next year, and 95 the year after, I'd be inclined to believe he is pis sing up a rope, although even temporary reductions of predators could make a difference in my mind, given that the reductions are made at a strategic time each year.
However, if he only catches 70 next year, and even less in subsequent years, I'd be inclined to believe he is making a difference.
I think it would be foolish to think he would ever get to a place where he wouldnt catch any, but turning the population of predators downward is always a good thing in my mind.
Your experience with "trapping out" a particular farm is real world experience also that IMO, should not be overlooked.

Bottom line, if him trapping this year and then seeing more poults is just a coincidence, ok. But if he continues to see the same returns on multiple years, I'm inclined to believe it is much less of a coincidence.
What say you Killmode?
I agree. What is being done by some is taking what some studies are looking at as the entire predator community and saying the numbers fit when you remove an even higher number of the main nest predators.

There is no doubt that opossum and coons have small home ranges. Making voids in them if a guy is willing to punish them and continue trapping even when there gets to be so few he is catching 5 a week instead of 5 a night is not that hard. Like I mentioned earlier. I removed them at a rate that would be 332 per square mile. My 83 probably influenced the number of them within a 1/4 mile of my farm . They were trapped until the very end of January when they were starting to breed and sows were in there small home range near den sites.

There just isn't any reason to think that if they were the problem a guy would see what it appears like I have been seeing.
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Old 07-18-2017, 12:04 AM   #409
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Sure you are. They removed predators and some cases it increased production. Your excuses as to timing and amount of acres don't hold water for anyone but you. You mix and match quail and bumblebee studies and try your best to say they apply as a means to your excuses. The fact is if you remove enough nest predators with small home ranges (coons , opossum ect) in an area there is no reason to think they will fill back in before nesting season is complete. That's because they don't travel much to find the void you created. Its just that simple. If circumstances are right and the predator you remove is the actual problem you could see positive effects. Bumblebee studies don't change that.
No, it didnt....

The studies apply to all ground nesting birds. Thats been confirmed.

Show us your fake poult pics from your pull this week.... lmao
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Old 07-18-2017, 12:07 AM   #410
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I agree. What is being done by some is taking what some studies are looking at as the entire predator community and saying the numbers fit when you remove an even higher number of the main nest predators.

There is no doubt that opossum and coons have small home ranges. Making voids in them if a guy is willing to punish them and continue trapping even when there gets to be so few he is catching 5 a week instead of 5 a night is not that hard. Like I mentioned earlier. I removed them at a rate that would be 332 per square mile. My 83 probably influenced the number of them within a 1/4 mile of my farm . They were trapped until the very end of January when they were starting to breed and sows were in there small home range near den sites.

There just isn't any reason to think that if they were the problem a guy would see what it appears like I have been seeing.
Yep, you got it all figured out. Those scientists and researchers just didnt have your incredible expertise to guide them.... you are EXACTLY like hazelville is with CWD when it comes to this.... and its epic amounts of hilarious.


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